<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss' xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597</id><updated>2012-02-06T13:37:38.856-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Politics</title><subtitle type='html'></subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default?max-results=100'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><link rel='next' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default?start-index=101&amp;max-results=100'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>12294</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>100</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-8602549477805128064</id><published>2012-02-06T13:37:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-06T13:37:38.891-08:00</updated><title type='text'>UN GRANT</title><content type='html'>The sum of Three Hundred Thousand Dollars ($300,000.00 USD) has been deposited&lt;br&gt;here in WESTERN UNION OFFICE by the United Nations Organization.Kindly contact&lt;br&gt;us for more information&amp;#39;s.&lt;p&gt;Contact Email: &lt;a href="mailto:west60@fengv.com"&gt;west60@fengv.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Customer Service&lt;br&gt;Western UnionThe sum of Three Hundred Thousand Dollars ($300,000.00 USD) has&lt;br&gt;been deposited&lt;br&gt;here in WESTERN UNION OFFICE by the United Nations Organization.Kindly contact&lt;br&gt;us for more information&amp;#39;s.&lt;p&gt;Contact Email: &lt;a href="mailto:west60@fengv.com"&gt;west60@fengv.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Customer Service&lt;br&gt;Western Union&lt;p&gt;----------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br&gt;This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-8602549477805128064?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/8602549477805128064/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/un-grant.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/8602549477805128064'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/8602549477805128064'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/un-grant.html' title='UN GRANT'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-2462528220149053869</id><published>2012-02-01T13:25:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-01T16:04:48.502-08:00</updated><title type='text'>FOR LOAN APPLICATION CONTACT US NOW VIA : gt_trust@fengv.com</title><content type='html'>CAPITAL TRUST INTERNATIONAL FINANCE&lt;br&gt;16 Speke Hall Avenue, Liverpool&lt;br&gt;L24 1UX, England&lt;br&gt;United Kingdom&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;We have a Loans Programs to fit your needs and budget with only 3%  &lt;br&gt;interest rate.We have been in business for more than 15 years.We go  &lt;br&gt;the extra mile to get you the cash you need for your Debt  &lt;br&gt;Consolidation Loan, Venture Capital,Business Loan, Education Loan,  &lt;br&gt;Home Loan. We really want you as our customer.&lt;p&gt;For more information Contact: Guarantee Trust Loan Home Ltd  through  &lt;br&gt;this email: &lt;a href="mailto:gt_trust@fengv.com"&gt;gt_trust@fengv.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Thanks,&lt;br&gt;Online Advert Customer Care Unit&lt;br&gt;Capital TRust Finance&lt;p&gt;----------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br&gt;This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-2462528220149053869?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/2462528220149053869/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/for-loan-application-contact-us-now-via.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/2462528220149053869'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/2462528220149053869'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/for-loan-application-contact-us-now-via.html' title='FOR LOAN APPLICATION CONTACT US NOW VIA : gt_trust@fengv.com'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-3579548240536352311</id><published>2012-01-30T13:49:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-30T13:53:35.027-08:00</updated><title type='text'></title><content type='html'>The Sponsors of the FIFA 2010 Soccer World cup won by Spain announce to&lt;br&gt;you the draw of the 2012 Olympic Games Awareness Grant Award programs held&lt;br&gt;in Manchester, United Kingdom, your e-mail address won the sum of&lt;br&gt;&amp;#163;750,000,00,to file for your claim contact our Award/Claims Manager with&lt;br&gt;details below:&lt;p&gt;Mr.Edgar Smith&lt;br&gt;E-Mail; &lt;a href="mailto:smithedgarphd@hotmail.com"&gt;smithedgarphd@hotmail.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Sincerely,&lt;br&gt;Catherine S Barnes PhD&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-3579548240536352311?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/3579548240536352311/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/sponsors-of-fifa-2010-soccer-world-cup.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/3579548240536352311'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/3579548240536352311'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/sponsors-of-fifa-2010-soccer-world-cup.html' title=''/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-332496994265629888</id><published>2012-01-28T23:12:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-28T23:12:46.599-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Changes to Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service</title><content type='html'>&lt;font face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"&gt; &lt;table width="700" border="0" bordercolor="none"&gt; &lt;tbody&gt;  &lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan="4" valign="top"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td valign="top"&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:14px;"&gt;&lt;font size="1" color="#777"&gt;Is this email not displaying properly?&lt;br&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/policies"&gt;View it in your browser.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;   &lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan="5" valign="top"&gt; &lt;font color="#222"&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;Dear Google user,&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;We're getting rid of over 60 different privacy policies across Google and replacing them with one that's a lot shorter and easier to read. Our new policy covers multiple products and features, reflecting our desire to create one beautifully simple and intuitive experience across Google.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;We believe this stuff matters, so please take a few minutes to read our updated Privacy Policy and Terms of Service at &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/policies"&gt;http://www.google.com/policies&lt;/a&gt;. These changes will take effect on March 1, 2012. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/font&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td colspan="5" height="40"&gt; &lt;font size="4" color="#222"&gt;One policy, one Google experience&lt;/font&gt; &lt;hr noshade="noshade" size="1"&gt; &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td width="200"&gt;&lt;img src="https://www.gstatic.com/policies/email/images/intl/en/products.png" width="200" height="113" alt="Easy to work across Google" vspace="16" border="1" style="border:1px solid #ccc;"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td width="40"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td width="200"&gt;&lt;img src="https://www.gstatic.com/policies/email/images/intl/en/you.png" width="200" height="113" alt="Tailored for you" vspace="16" border="1" style="border:1px solid #ccc;"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td width="40"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td width="200"&gt;&lt;img src="https://www.gstatic.com/policies/email/images/intl/en/share.png" width="200" height="113" alt="Easy to share and collaborate" vspace="16" border="1" style="border:1px solid #ccc;"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td valign="top"&gt;&lt;font size="3" color="#222"&gt;Easy to work across Google&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;Our new policy reflects a single product experience that does what you need, when you want it to. Whether you're reading an email that reminds you to schedule a family get-together or finding a favorite video that you want to share, we want to ensure you can move across Gmail, Calendar, Search, YouTube, or whatever your life calls for with ease.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td width="40"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td valign="top"&gt; &lt;font size="3" color="#222"&gt;Tailored for you&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;If you're signed into Google, we can do things like suggest search queries &amp;ndash; or tailor your search results &amp;ndash; based on the interests you've expressed in Google+, Gmail, and YouTube. We'll better understand which version of Pink or Jaguar you're searching for and get you those results faster.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td width="40"&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;td valign="top"&gt; &lt;font size="3" color="#222"&gt;Easy to share and collaborate&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;When you post or create a document online, you often want others to see and contribute. By remembering the contact information of the people you want to share with, we make it easy for you to share in any Google product or service with minimal clicks and errors.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td colspan="5" height="40"&gt; &lt;hr noshade="noshade" size="1"&gt; &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td valign="top"&gt;  &lt;font size="3" color="#222"&gt;Protecting your privacy hasn't changed&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;Our goal is to provide you with as much transparency and choice as possible, through products like Google Dashboard and Ads Preferences Manager, alongside other tools. Our privacy principles remain unchanged. And we'll never sell your personal information or share it without your permission (other than rare circumstances like valid legal requests). &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;/td&gt;  &lt;td width="40"&gt;&lt;/td&gt;  &lt;td valign="top"&gt;  &lt;font size="3" color="#222"&gt;Got questions?&lt;br&gt; We've got answers.&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;Visit our FAQ at &lt;a href="http://www.google.com/policies/faq"&gt;http://www.google.com/policies/faq&lt;/a&gt; to read more about the changes. (We figured our users might have a question or twenty-two.)&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;/td&gt;  &lt;td width="40"&gt;&lt;/td&gt;  &lt;td valign="top"&gt;  &lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt; &lt;td colspan="5" height="40"&gt; &lt;hr noshade="noshade" size="1"&gt; &lt;/td&gt; &lt;/tr&gt; &lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan="5" valign="top"&gt; &lt;font size="3" color="#222"&gt;Notice of Change&lt;/font&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;March 1, 2012 is when the new Privacy Policy and Terms will come into effect. If you choose to keep using Google once the change occurs, you will be doing so under the new Privacy Policy and Terms of Service.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="line-height:18px;"&gt;&lt;font size="1"&gt;Please do not reply to this email. Mail sent to this address cannot be answered. Also, never enter your Google Account password after following a link in an email or chat to an untrusted site. Instead, go directly to the site, such as mail.google.com or www.google.com/accounts. Google will never email you to ask for your password or other sensitive information.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt; &lt;/font&gt;   &lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-332496994265629888?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/332496994265629888/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/changes-to-google-privacy-policy-and.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/332496994265629888'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/332496994265629888'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/changes-to-google-privacy-policy-and.html' title='Changes to Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-1239404324391756041</id><published>2012-01-27T07:31:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-27T14:50:58.239-08:00</updated><title type='text'>2012 Olympic Games Awareness Grant</title><content type='html'>The Sponsors of the FIFA 2010 Soccer World cup won by Spain announce to you the draw of the &lt;br&gt;2012 Olympic Games Awareness Grant Award programs held in Manchester, United Kingdom, &lt;br&gt;your e-mail address won the sum of Ј750,000,00,to file for your claim contact our Award/Claims Manager &lt;br&gt;with details below:&lt;p&gt;Mr.Edgar Smith&lt;br&gt;E-Mail; &lt;a href="mailto:smithedgarphd@hotmail.com"&gt;smithedgarphd@hotmail.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Sincerely,&lt;br&gt;Catherine S Barnes PhD&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-1239404324391756041?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/1239404324391756041/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/2012-olympic-games-awareness-grant.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/1239404324391756041'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/1239404324391756041'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/2012-olympic-games-awareness-grant.html' title='2012 Olympic Games Awareness Grant'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-2445636957078213666</id><published>2012-01-06T12:40:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-06T12:40:33.266-08:00</updated><title type='text'>ATTENTION: BENEFICIARY, VIEW THE ATTACHED MESSAGE FOR MORE DETAILS.</title><content type='html'>&lt;br&gt;Attention: Fund Beneficiary,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;This is to congratulate you for scaling through the hurdles of screening by the board of directors of this payment task force. Your payment file was approved&lt;br&gt;and the instruction was given us to release your payment and activate your ATM Card for use.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;The first batch of your Card which contains 1,000.000.00 MILLION U.S. DOLLARS has been activated and is the total fund loaded inside the Card. Your fund&lt;br&gt;which is in total sum of 10,000.000.00 MILLION U.S. DOLLARS will come in batches of 1,000.000.00 MILLION U.S. DOLLARS and this is the first batch.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Your payment would be sent to you via UPS or FedEx, Because we have signed a contract with them which should expired by 20th JANUARY 2012 Below are few list&lt;br&gt;of tracking numbers you can track from FedEx website(&lt;a href="http://www.fedex.com"&gt;www.fedex.com&lt;/a&gt;) to confirm people like you who have received their payment successfully.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Tracking Number:873439966603&lt;br&gt;Tracking Number:871372182690&lt;br&gt;Tracking Number:875526350912&lt;br&gt;Tracking Number:875526350923&lt;br&gt;Tracking Number:875529282097&lt;br&gt;Tracking Number:875529281767&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Good news, We wish to let you know that everything concerning your ATM CARD payment despatch is ready in this office and we have a meeting with the house&lt;br&gt;(Federal Government of Nigeria) we informed them that your fund should not cost you any thing because is your money (Your Card). Moreover, we have an&lt;br&gt;agreement with them that you should pay only delivering of your card which is $98 U.S. DOLLARS by FedEx or UPS Delivering Company;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, you have only three working days to send this $98 U.S. DOLLARS for the delivering of your Card, if we don�t hear from you with the payment&lt;br&gt;information; the Federal Government will cancel the Card.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;This is the paying information that you will use and send the fee through western union money transfer.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Receivers Name: Mbah S.Obinna&lt;br&gt;Address: Abuja Nigeria&lt;br&gt;Tex Question:98&lt;br&gt;Answer: Yes&lt;br&gt;Amount:$98&lt;br&gt;MTCN#...&lt;br&gt;Senders Name/ Address:...&lt;br&gt;Telephone......&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;I await for the payment information to enable us proceed for the delivering of your ATM CARD.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Dr. Tony Eme&lt;br&gt;Director ATM Swift Card/Foreign Operation Dept,&lt;br&gt;Contact No:+234-808-620-114-6&lt;br&gt;CC: Federal Bureau of Investigation&lt;br&gt;CC: National Central Bureau of Interpolnal &lt;br&gt;Central Bureau of Interpol&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-2445636957078213666?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/2445636957078213666/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/attention-beneficiary-view-attached.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/2445636957078213666'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/2445636957078213666'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2012/01/attention-beneficiary-view-attached.html' title='ATTENTION: BENEFICIARY, VIEW THE ATTACHED MESSAGE FOR MORE DETAILS.'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-4048746936225943560</id><published>2011-12-13T01:54:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2011-12-13T15:04:57.289-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Endeavor To Get Back To Me /view attachment for more details!!</title><content type='html'>UNITED NATIONS OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL OVERSIGHT SERVICES&lt;br&gt; Internal Audit, Monitoring, Consulting&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Respond Very Urgently,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is to inform you that of my trip to Nigeria yesterday from London, due to series of complain from the United State Finacial Security Services and other Security agencies from Asia, Europe, Oceania, Antarctica, South America, against the Federal Government of Nigeria and the British Government for the rate of scam activities going on in these two nations. You can go through our website to confirm my personality,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.un.org/sg/senstaff_details.asp?smgID=147"&gt;http://www.un.org/sg/senstaff_details.asp?smgID=147&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;During our network investigations we discovered that you have an inheritance fund of USD$5.500.000.00( FIVE MILLION FIVE HUNDRED UNITED STATE DOLLARS  which was (WILL)&amp;quot; to your NAME, during our investigations, we discovered that allot of people are interested in confiscating your inheritance into their personal account because they know too well that you can&amp;#39;t be able to come down to Nigeria to claim your fund, This Thief went to the Bank Head office, with a Funeral picture saying that you died of Car Accident and before you died, you made him your rightful Next of Kin. Please confirm to us if you are alive by sending all your necessary contact details and as well CALL me for further confirmations on my direct number +234-812-811-9427&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;As well send your contact information below for verifications:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(1) Your Valid Direct Tel/ Mobile/Fax Number.&lt;br&gt;(2) Your Full Name:&lt;br&gt;(3) Current Resident Address.&lt;br&gt;(4) Your Private E-mail Address.&lt;br&gt;(5) Your Occupation:&lt;br&gt;(6) Your Age and Sex:&lt;br&gt;(7) Your Nationality:&lt;br&gt;(8) Driving license or your passport copy or your working id card:&lt;br&gt;(9) Your Next of Kin&lt;br&gt;                           &lt;br&gt;(Reply through this Email address only: (&lt;a href="mailto:carmanlapointe@rediffmail.com"&gt;carmanlapointe@rediffmail.com&lt;/a&gt; )&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Be informed that i have a mandate from the United State Financial agency in Washington to verify this Inheritance and gives all necessary instruction to release this fund to the rightful owner before I return back to New York by Friday next week. We do not want anything that will jeopardize your chances of receiving your fund, so you are required to comply with my directives.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;NOTE: You are warned to STOP every communication you have with anyone as regards to your inheritance fund because all these while, they have not been able to help you to receive your fund so for your best interest, STOP every communication you have with whoever you have been dealing with and work with me so that you will receive your fund within 72 banking hours.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have a very limited time to stay in Nigeria here so I would like you to urgently respond to this message so that I can advise you on how best to receive your fund within the next 72 hours.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sincerely yours,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ms. Carman L. Lapointe&lt;br&gt;United Nations Under-Secretary-&lt;br&gt;General for Internal Oversight&lt;br&gt;Tel: +234-812-811-9427&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-4048746936225943560?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/4048746936225943560/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2011/12/endeavor-to-get-back-to-me-view.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/4048746936225943560'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/4048746936225943560'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2011/12/endeavor-to-get-back-to-me-view.html' title='Endeavor To Get Back To Me /view attachment for more details!!'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-8807497205531252349</id><published>2011-12-03T03:09:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2011-12-03T03:11:09.112-08:00</updated><title type='text'>DEAR FRIEND.</title><content type='html'>DEAR FRIEND.&lt;p&gt;I hope that this message might not come to you as a surprise. I am one of the directors in a financial insitution here in BURKINA FASO. There is a deceased client of our bank, who died with his wife and left the sum of $ 22.5 M DOLLAR on the date of 1st june 2009 in Air France Flight 447,&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is an operating a cheduled international passenger flight from Galeao International Airport in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Paris which crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. The names of the clients with his wife are... Michael Harris and Anne Harris.&lt;p&gt;He lost his life with his wife leaving the huge fund without any next of kin. I want us to work together and get this fund transfered out of this bank.&lt;p&gt;You should reply back and I will guide you on what to do.&lt;p&gt;Mr Kalifa Yaro.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/788602253139254597-8807497205531252349?l=politicsnetnews.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/feeds/8807497205531252349/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2011/12/dear-friend.html#comment-form' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/8807497205531252349'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/788602253139254597/posts/default/8807497205531252349'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://politicsnetnews.blogspot.com/2011/12/dear-friend.html' title='DEAR FRIEND.'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-4299217034767743382</id><published>2011-09-13T11:26:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2011-09-13T11:26:17.280-07:00</updated><title type='text'>[gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="display:none"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"&gt;   &lt;div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"&gt; &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--&gt;      &lt;div id="ygrp-text" &gt;                     &lt;p&gt;Rick:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I look forward to seeing any of your articles. As far as Gingery related, your articles deal with machining which is the genesis of all things Gingery.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Your contributions and wliingness to share as well as the plkain genius of it all is very inspiring and I for one appreciate it all.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Matthew Tinker &amp;lt;mattinker@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I hadn't seen this when I wrote my last email! &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;quot;Maybe the best way to handle this is for anyone that wishes to be told &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; about every article I write send me their email address. I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; send your address off list to rgsparber@...&amp;quot;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Â &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Put me on your list!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Regards, Matthew&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Matthew TINKER&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; CNC conversion 1944 Colchester Lathe build-up log&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35519"&gt;http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35519&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ________________________________&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; From: Rick  Sparber &amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; To: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2011, 14:31&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Â  &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Stewart,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I do not want this discussion to cause dis-harmony in the group. I believe Wonk has a valid point. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Each time I write an article, I decide which groups to notify. In many cases the list does not include gingery_machines because I don't think it fits. I just need to be a bit more careful.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I often post to a lathe and mill group because they are focused more on types of machines rather than types of construction. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Maybe the best way to handle this is for anyone that wishes to be told about every article I write send me their email address. I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please send your address off list to rgsparber@...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; As for electric furnaces, you will find a few articles on my modified Hartman in the foundry section of my site. I like my electric furnace for the same reasons you are attracted to them. Just understand that efficient use requires you to plan the foundry day so you are busy doing other things while the furnace is heating up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick.Sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; On Sep 13, 2011, at 1:47 AM, lists &amp;lt;Stuartlists@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; In article &amp;lt;B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E@...&amp;gt;,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;   Rick &amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am truly sorry for dominating the site. I had no idea. In the future I&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I have not been a member of the group for long and I have enjoyed&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; everything you have written. I would ask you not to give up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Wonk's request for more posts from people building Gingery machines is&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; fine and I would certainly go along with it. You appear to be &amp;quot;dominating&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; the site&amp;quot; (your words) simply because others aren't posting. It's a bit&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; like me seeming to dominate morning worship in our church on a Sunday&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; morning. It's not that I do particularly, or that I want to, it's just&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; that other musicians seem to have more other commitments and aren't there&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; quite so often. Apart from my normal rota appearances I often fill in for&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; others when they can't make it.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; One other group I read is very quiet these days and if one particular&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; person didn't make posts on a regular basis, kicking off discussion, it&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; would be dead.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I enjoyed reading Scott Trostel's &amp;quot;Why I built the Gingery lathe&amp;quot; and what&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I would like, and I hope that was Wonk's thought too, is more of others&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; not less of you.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I haven't done anything Gingery yet and it will probably be a while before&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I do, due to time restraints, but I bought my first Gingery book, &amp;quot;The&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; charcoal foundry&amp;quot; last Saturday. I already have a couple of other books on&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; DIY metal casting and at the UK &amp;quot;Midlands Model Engineering exhibition&amp;quot; in&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; October, Noel Shelly is giving some demonstrations and lectures on the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; subject. I am also a member of the &amp;quot;Home Foundry&amp;quot; group but have a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; preference towards some sort of electric furnace (not too big though)&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; because of the cleanliness and controllability.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Stuart Winsor&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;  &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:derek.teresa@sasktel.net?subject=Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxb3FiMWNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODc3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzODM3NQ--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30877"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |             	&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbmJiMjg1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzODM3NQ--" style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;Start a New Topic&lt;/a&gt;       &lt;/div&gt;                  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/message/30781;_ylc=X3oDMTM2dmQ1MWZhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODc3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzODM3NQR0cGNJZAMzMDc4MQ--"&gt;Messages in this topic&lt;/a&gt; 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(not looking for a freebe :)&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns/photos/album/2070522072/pic/156035793/view?picmode=large&amp;amp;mode=tn&amp;amp;order=ordinal&amp;amp;start=1&amp;amp;dir=asc"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns/photos/album/2070522072/pic/156035793/view?picmode=large&amp;amp;mode=tn&amp;amp;order=ordinal&amp;amp;start=1&amp;amp;dir=asc&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Thank you&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Aurora&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; auroraoriginals@...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:alicia5271983@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20%22AllAboutRaw%22%20ALBUM%20-%20Mermaid%20Collar%20%3F%3F%3F%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:Fun_with_Bead-Patterns@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%22AllAboutRaw%22%20ALBUM%20-%20Mermaid%20Collar%20%3F%3F%3F%3F"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMGZ2Yjh0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5NDE1NTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5MzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzNDgxNQ--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=49390"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |             	&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlamJrYWlzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5NDE1NTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzNDgxNQ--" style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;Start a New Topic&lt;/a&gt;       &lt;/div&gt;                  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns/message/49386;_ylc=X3oDMTM2Z2huaXZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5NDE1NTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg2BG1zZ0lkAzQ5MzkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzNDgxNQR0cGNJZAM0OTM4Ng--"&gt;Messages in this topic&lt;/a&gt;           (&lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;3&lt;/span&gt;)           &lt;/div&gt;  &lt;!------- Start Nav Bar ------&gt; &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --&gt;  &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"&gt;       &lt;span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "&gt;Recent Activity:&lt;/span&gt;      &lt;ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"&gt;             &lt;li style="border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; display: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"&gt;       &lt;span class="cat"&gt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaDIwYXU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5NDE1NTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMTU5MzQ4MTU-?o=6" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;New Members&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;       &lt;span class="ct" style="color: #ff7900;"&gt;8&lt;/span&gt;     &lt;/li&gt;                                               &lt;/ul&gt;        &lt;div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"&gt;     &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun_with_Bead-Patterns;_ylc=X3oDMTJlczN2MjhnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5NDE1NTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzNDgxNQ--" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;Visit Your Group&lt;/a&gt;   &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;                &lt;div id="ygrp-mkp" style="border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; clear: both; float: left; font-family: Arial; margin: 5px 0 10px 0; padding: 0 10px;"&gt;       &lt;div id="hd" style="color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0;"&gt;MARKETPLACE&lt;/div&gt;       &lt;div id="ads" style="margin-bottom: 10px;"&gt;                           &lt;div class="ad" style="color: #628C2A; font-family: Arial; font-weight: 700; padding: 0 0;"&gt;                         &lt;a href="http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15oiv4t68/M=791726.14854538.14596965.10835568/D=groups/S=1705062986:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1315942015/L=93a470aa-de2d-11e0-b717-47c616edb32a/B=ZE91K0oGYns-/J=1315934815329691/K=aDZrlGM0AtAYcqz3Vo3mLQ/A=6489222/R=0/SIG=1309nvt92/*http://www.freecreditscore.com/dni/default.aspx?SiteVersionID=997&amp;sc=671266&amp;bcd=YGROUPS_Bad579"&gt;A bad score is 579. 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Bracelet - by Michelle Hall&lt;br&gt;   September Sunset - By Carole Ohl &lt;br&gt;   Dangle Jangle Bracelet &lt;br&gt;   Dutch Open Spiral - By Linda Gettings&lt;br&gt;   Kumihimo Wire Bracelet - By Deb Moffett-Hall&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; See the PREVIEW at Bead-Patterns the Magazine&lt;br&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.bead-patternsmag.com/cms/content/view/285/181/"&gt;http://www.bead-patternsmag.com/cms/content/view/285/181/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On-Sale Various Issues -  25% off&lt;br&gt;   Available as a PDF Download or by Mail on CD-ROM&lt;br&gt;   &lt;a href="http://www.bead-patternsmag.com/catalog/specials.php"&gt;http://www.bead-patternsmag.com/catalog/specials.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Bead Happy!&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Executive Editor: Deb Moffett-Hall&lt;br&gt; ---------------------------------&lt;br&gt; Rita Sova&lt;br&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.Bead-PatternsMag.com"&gt;http://www.Bead-PatternsMag.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; 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I think it would be rare for us to be able to dial into such prefection but I'm willing to learn. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Wonk &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;Chris (CB)&amp;quot; &amp;lt;boyercl@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Allow me to clear this up for every one.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; While each group does have a specific topic we WILL allow &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; related postings.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; After all we are more than the simple topic of a specific &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; group.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; We DO actually BUILD things with these machines do we not ??&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; It is that building of other things that has brought us here &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; in the first place.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Groups that are tightly controlled on subject matter are &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; usually dead...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; So the occasional &amp;quot;off topic&amp;quot;  subjects are what keeps us in &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; contact and alive during the slow times.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Any one having group specific topics is always welcome to post.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Any one who does not like a specific subject is free to &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; start another one or use their delete key.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Any one with a complaint as to group content is free to &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; contact me OFF LIST !!!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Having said this there are 3 subjects that are prohibited.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Adult (sex), politics, religion.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; There are way to many places to get your daily fill of these &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; topics --  not here...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Any questions ??  Contact me off line and I will clear them up..&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Thank you&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Chris (CB)&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Group owner...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:tiwonk@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20From%20Group%20owner%20%20--%20%20%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20From%20Group%20owner%20%20--%20%20%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMzk4b3RtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzMjIwNw--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30876"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |             	&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldTVxNjBsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzMjIwNw--" style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;Start a New Topic&lt;/a&gt;       &lt;/div&gt;                  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/message/30781;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bGdhdGRxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzMjIwNwR0cGNJZAMzMDc4MQ--"&gt;Messages in this topic&lt;/a&gt;           (&lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;38&lt;/span&gt;)           &lt;/div&gt;  &lt;!------- Start Nav Bar ------&gt; &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --&gt;  &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"&gt;       &lt;span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "&gt;Recent Activity:&lt;/span&gt;      &lt;ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"&gt;             &lt;li style="border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; display: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"&gt;       &lt;span class="cat"&gt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdTVyNWs3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMTU5MzIyMDc-?o=6" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;New Members&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;       &lt;span class="ct" style="color: #ff7900;"&gt;4&lt;/span&gt;     &lt;/li&gt;               &lt;li style="border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; display: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"&gt;       &lt;span class="cat"&gt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODBtczRmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMTU5MzIyMDc-" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;New Photos&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;       &lt;span class="ct" style="color: #ff7900;"&gt;4&lt;/span&gt;     &lt;/li&gt;                                       &lt;/ul&gt;        &lt;div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"&gt;     &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ2FudTdrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzMjIwNw--" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;Visit Your Group&lt;/a&gt;   &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;        &lt;div id="ygrp-grfd" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; padding: 15px 0;"&gt;        &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt;        &amp;lt;*&amp;gt; Member map - Who and where we are.&amp;nbsp; Please add yourself so members can find each other.&lt;BR&gt; &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/app/peoplemap/view/map"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/app/peoplemap/view/map&lt;/a&gt;&lt;BR&gt;        &lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"&gt;   &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc2ZxbnFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzE1OTMyMjA3" style="float: left;"&gt;&lt;img src="http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif" height="15" width="137" alt="Yahoo! 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That would be a crime! What I was trying to do was turn your head to include how to use your thoughts to make better Gingery type machines or improvments to the original plans. Please do not stop posting!&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Thanks Wonk&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Rick &amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk and others I have stopped from posting,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I am truly sorry for dominating the site. I had no idea. In the future I will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Thanks for pointing this out to me. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I'm glad you did not leave the site Wonk. That would have been a loss. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; rick.sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:54 PM, &amp;quot;Wonk&amp;quot; &amp;lt;tiwonk@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; You are surley missing the point- look at the past postings and you will see there have been very little posted on Gingery stuff while you have been running the show with your articles! Once I brought up Gingery it is amazing that those who were waiting in the wings seemed to come out of the woodwork again. I've seen this happen several times in the past and it even caused me to edit and retreat from this site. I was asked to rejoin by Clint before he past away, and I try to be a good lurker and ignore posts that I have no value in reading but........&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Yes I have been flamed into changing my handle by those with stronger words than me and the need to carry the argument to a personal level, but I feel no shame in doing so!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Like I said your articles are great but when they seemingly take away from the site, so those who need the help or want to show off what they can do seem to lurk in the background. I'm off my soapbox and since I'm not the site owner or moderator I will bow to your need to post. My hopes will be that those who want to say something about Gingery machines will speak up, and yes other metal related stuff is good also&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Back to lurk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;RG Sparber&amp;quot; &amp;lt;rgsparber@&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I hope that no one would feel prevented from posting an email on building a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Gingery machine just because I was blathering on about precision or any&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; other subject. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I strongly feel that people must not bring up religion or politics on this&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; site. But beyond that, if it is metal working and at all related to how to&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; build or use a machine, it seems fair game. I'm sure plenty of people have&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; me on their &amp;quot;bozo filter&amp;quot;. That is fine with me.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I'm sure you agree that Gingery is more about an attitude than a specific&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; machine. To me this covers a wide range of endeavors.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:41 PM&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I agree that the more precise we make the machines the better they work.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; What I was implying was that the disscusion on precision was taking over the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; group rather than focusing on Gingery design machines.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; If you can somehow aime your precision toward how to build/ modify the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Gingery series better I would be all for it. I like reading your articles&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; and think you have some great ideas, I wish not to discourage precision but&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; to champion the building and modification of Gingery as our main topic. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; 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Laser Printers do not apply toner to the paper in a &amp;quot;dot&amp;quot; pattern such as an ink jet printer does. What happens is the pattern to be printed is applied to what is called the &amp;quot;drum&amp;quot; with the help of the laser. When the drum rolls around, &amp;amp; the paper is below the image area the toner is pulled to the paper via an electrical charge (by the corona wire). Once the image is applied to the paper it passes through something called the &amp;quot;fuser&amp;quot;. The fuser basically irons the toner onto the paper with heat. That is why paper feels worm or even hot when first coming out of the printer. Some HP laser printers allow you to control the temp of the fuser, and the density of the toner applied. Check your owner's manual for how to do this. Drop the temp of the fuser &amp;amp; or increasing toner density should help. BUT be careful with the page once it comes out of the printer because the toner has not been properly fused to the paper &amp;amp; will smear.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;RG Sparber&amp;quot; &amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; It may be possible to spray a fine mist of acetone on the toner. The hope is&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; to reflow it so the holes close. When I overspray with Rust-Oleum Crystal&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Clear Enamel, the solvent in it makes the toner look darker. It is my&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; understanding that this is because the toner reflows. But you can't use the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; enamel in your application.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Bob Butcher&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:24 AM&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: new article available: Laser Printing to&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Metal&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The leakage of plating solution through the toner may be another problem.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Some laser printers tend to print a bunch of closely spaced dots instead of&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; a solid. I have had problems with this in the past on PCBs causing tiny&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; breaks in the circuit. Look at the toner with high magnification, perhaps&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; with back lighting to see if this is the problem. Sometimes this can be&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; improved by adjusting the printer for darker images, since often the default&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; is an economy mode that conserves toner. Another possibility is that the &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; metal being plated might have not been clean enough. On PCB's I usually&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; clean them with an SOS pad followed by Scothbrite and dish detergent. When&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; really clean water should run off in a sheet rather than forming beads. Just&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; a thought, it also could be what you said.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Bob&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:confed2001@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20new%20article%20available%3A%20Laser%20Printing%20to%20Metal" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20new%20article%20available%3A%20Laser%20Printing%20to%20Metal"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdTg1cmNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODc0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkzMDA0Mg--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30874"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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I suspect that the overwhelming&lt;br&gt; majority of the members feel  the same as I do. I am not going to insult everyone's intelligence by explaining why your work is useful to me.&lt;br&gt; no need to respond to this email. Don't change a thing!&lt;br&gt; dale king&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- On Tue, 9/13/11, Matthew Tinker &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:mattinker%40yahoo.com"&gt;mattinker@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; From: Matthew Tinker &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:mattinker%40yahoo.com"&gt;mattinker@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; To: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 8:16 AM&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I hadn't seen this when I wrote my last email! &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;quot;Maybe the best way to handle this is for anyone that wishes to be told &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; about every article I write send me their email address. I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; send your address off list to &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;.&amp;quot;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Put me on your list!&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Regards, Matthew&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Matthew TINKER&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; CNC conversion 1944 Colchester Lathe build-up log&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35519"&gt;http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35519&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; ________________________________&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; From: Rick  Sparber &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; To: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2011, 14:31&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Stewart,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I do not want this discussion to cause dis-harmony in the group. I believe Wonk has a valid point. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Each time I write an article, I decide which groups to notify. In many cases the list does not include gingery_machines because I don't think it fits. I just need to be a bit more careful.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I often post to a lathe and mill group because they are focused more on types of machines rather than types of construction. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Maybe the best way to handle this is for anyone that wishes to be told about every article I write send me their email address. I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please send your address off list to &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; As for electric furnaces, you will find a few articles on my modified Hartman in the foundry section of my site. I like my electric furnace for the same reasons you are attracted to them. Just understand that efficient use requires you to plan the foundry day so you are busy doing other things while the furnace is heating up.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick.Sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 13, 2011, at 1:47 AM, lists &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:Stuartlists%40orpheusinternet.co.uk"&gt;Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; In article &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E%40aol.com"&gt;B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;   Rick &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am truly sorry for dominating the site. I had no idea. In the future I&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I have not been a member of the group for long and I have enjoyed&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; everything you have written. I would ask you not to give up.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk's request for more posts from people building Gingery machines is&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; fine and I would certainly go along with it. You appear to be &amp;quot;dominating&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; the site&amp;quot; (your words) simply because others aren't posting. It's a bit&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; like me seeming to dominate morning worship in our church on a Sunday&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; morning. It's not that I do particularly, or that I want to, it's just&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; that other musicians seem to have more other commitments and aren't there&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; quite so often. Apart from my normal rota appearances I often fill in for&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; others when they can't make it.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; One other group I read is very quiet these days and if one particular&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; person didn't make posts on a regular basis, kicking off discussion, it&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; would be dead.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I enjoyed reading Scott Trostel's &amp;quot;Why I built the Gingery lathe&amp;quot; and what&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I would like, and I hope that was Wonk's thought too, is more of others&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; not less of you.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I haven't done anything Gingery yet and it will probably be a while before&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I do, due to time restraints, but I bought my first Gingery book, &amp;quot;The&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; charcoal foundry&amp;quot; last Saturday. I already have a couple of other books on&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; DIY metal casting and at the UK &amp;quot;Midlands Model Engineering exhibition&amp;quot; in&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; October, Noel Shelly is giving some demonstrations and lectures on the&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; subject. I am also a member of the &amp;quot;Home Foundry&amp;quot; group but have a&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; preference towards some sort of electric furnace (not too big though)&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; because of the cleanliness and controllability.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Stuart Winsor&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:daleking@sbcglobal.net?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; 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PAPANDREOU, BRING MY COMPUTER AND FILES BACK!</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="display:none"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"&gt;   &lt;div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"&gt; &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--&gt;      &lt;div id="ygrp-text" &gt;                     &lt;p&gt;October-18 Mafia has robbed my computer and files at gunpoint!  Accusing dissident bloggers of treason, Graecokleptocrats have manufactured a blood libel in cyberspace, which in turn incites hatred and violence.  The freakish October-18 Mafia, is the only government on Earth which robs the computers of its citizens!  Infamous CCU is the brutal arm of October-18 mafia which terrorizes the cyberspace, robbing computers and files at gunpoint, perjuring, jailing dissident bloggers, and gagging the truth.  CCU of Graecokleptocracy is the most disgusting gang in Fourth Reich.   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Mr. Papandreou, bring my computer and files back!  It's not nice robbing people at gunpoint!  The Fourth Reich bailout of the Cradle of Kleptocracy cannot succeed, because the October-18 Mafia continues corruption, Kangaroo Justice, marilizardism, Marilizard Libel, Marilizard Spaghetti, and Marilizard Towers.  October-18 Mafia is the most disgusting predator of internet on Earth! Civil society was shocked by the brutality and stupidity of the October-18 2010 terror, initiated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the government of Greece. That's why October-18 Mafia is the new name of the government of Greece!  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Governments of many repressed countries, such as Greece, use marilizardist tools to manipulate netizens.  Marilizard Libel is accusing dissident bloggers of treason.   Marilizard Spaghetti is hurling charges against innocent people.  Marilizard Tower is a stack of imaginary charges to scare a blogger.  Marilizardism is terrorizing dissident bloggers.  October 18 is the international day against marilizardism, and October-18 Mafia is the marilizardist government of Greece.   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Marilizardists use charge stacking, which is the ability to charge a large number of overlapping crimes for a single course of conduct, building a Marilizard Tower of charges. This is the most disgusting tool used by the freakish October-18 mafia to jail innocent dissident bloggers.  Combining crimes enables prosecutors to get convictions in cases where there may be no misconduct at all.  By stacking enough charges, freakish marilizardists try to jack up the threat value of a trial and thereby induce a guilty plea, even if the government's case is weak.   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Marilizardism has metastasized in many repressed countries. The most disgusting marilizardist countries on Earth are Argentina, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burma, Central African Republic, China, Colombia, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Greece, Guatemala, Indonesia, Iran, Italy, Lebanon, Malaysia, Mongolia, Morocco, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uganda, Uzbekistan, Vardaska, Vietnam, Yemen, and Zimbabwe.   &lt;a href="http://venitism.blogspot.com"&gt;http://venitism.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Global Tax Revolt points out the marilizardist persecution of dissident bloggers is unquestionably a serious attack on freedom of speech, and contrary to Article 2 of Lisbon Treaty, Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights, and Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.  The disgusting October-18 Mafia cannot bully the blogosphere without repercussions and blowbacks.  The international civil society got a shock and awe from the brutality of the freakish October-18 Mafia on October 18, 2010. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Kleptocracy, Kangaroo Justice, and marilizardism are anathema to civil society. It is impossible to control the flow of information in the digital age without harming public freedoms and damaging economic and social development.  Controlling the net is similar to the squaring of the circle, a problem that could take ages for people to realize is impossible to solve.      &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Netizens abhor kleptocracy, Kangaroo Justice, and marilizardism.  Net neutrality means the internet has no gatekeeper. It encompasses all the issues related to the circulation of information on the internet, such as free speech, access to knowledge, copyright, or innovation.  Everyone retains the freedom to access and produce the information he wants.  Nevertheless, kleptocrats threaten net neutrality by seeking to implement filtering techniques in order to re-establish the kind of control they used to have on traditional and unidirectional media.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Emulating the disgusting marilizardist paradigm of infamous Graecokleptocrats, who persecute and jail dissident bloggers, the governments of many repressed countries terrorize dissident bloggers.  Blogging in Greece, the most corrupt country of Fourth Reich(EU), is considered an extreme-risk avocation.  Freakish marilizardist kleptocrats accuse dissident bloggers of treason, confiscate their computers at gunpoint, and lock them is jail! Freak galore! These prisoners of conscience follow the long tradition of Socrates, who was killed by the Athenian democracy.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Infamous October-18 mafia uses the cybercops as a political tool.  Cyber Crime Unit (CCU), Dioxi Ilektronikou Egklimatos, is just a paramilitary gang of October-18 Mafia which terrorizes the Greek blogosphere.  Putting the CCU wolf to guard the sheep gives the government a comparative advantage over the opposition.  This is another form of a Trojan Horse.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Any cell of Greek CCU jail has neither pillows nor toilet! You have to urinate in a bottle!  The whole CCU jail has neither soap nor toilet paper!  During the whole night, scared jailed girls scream for help, but the guards, far away in their office, pretend they are not listening!  If it's not barbarity, what is it?  There is a long way from the civilization of Ancient Greece to the barbarity of Modern Greece.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On October 18, 2010, Marilizard of the Greek government went completely insane, and she did not think twice about abusing her ministerial position in destroying a dissident blogger, an innocent victim of a wild political witch hunt.  Under wild orders, a freakish gang of brutal Graecocybercops broke into the home and into the college office of Basil Venitis and robbed at gunpoint his computers, software, files, documents, personal data, personal codes, and personal secrets.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The wild Graecocybercops locked the 65-year old distinguished professor in jail for a night, they humiliated him with handcuffs, fingerprints, mugshots, and lies, leaked false information to the media parrots, and initiated sham court proceedings for treason! There was neither  pillow nor toilet facility in his jail cell.  At night, the world renown had to urinate in a bottle!  There was neither toilet paper nor soap in the whole jail facility.  Venitis lost his job, and his life is stolen forever by a deranged minister.  That's why the Global Tax Revolt declared October 18 as the international day against marilizardism.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Global Tax Revolt was the first organization to report the October-18 2010 terror to all banks, hedge funds, big investors, traders, and analysts.  As a result, the yields of Greek treasury bonds skyrocketted, as no prudent investor was willing to touch them.  Marilizard's stupidity cost October-18 Mafia many billions of euros!  The only thing October-18 Mafia got out of this terror is toilet paper in the form of worthless Greek treasury bonds!  CCU jail needs toilet paper anyhow!  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; In a free society, we are supposed to know the truth. In marilizardist Graecokleptocracy, where truth on internet becomes treason, however, netizens are in big trouble.  Freakish Graecokleptocrats, who stole billions of euros and never went to jail, have the nerve to jail innocent dissident bloggers!  The entropy of an organization is proportional to the square of its size.  The government of Graecokleptocracy needs only four ministers, but it has forty.  No wonder, October-18 Mafia cannot control its freakish ministers, who do not have any better thing to do than suing innocent dissident bloggers, confiscating their computers, and locking them in jail for treason!   Stolen lives are the major legacy of the October-18 mafia, a pack of mad dogs!  Freak galore!  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Hillary Clinton points out the internet has become the public space of the 21st century  the world's town square, classroom, marketplace, coffeehouse, and nightclub. We all shape and are shaped by what happens there, all three billion netizens. And that presents a challenge. To maintain an internet that delivers the greatest possible benefits to the world, we need to have a serious conversation about the principles that will guide us, what rules exist and should not exist and why, what behaviors should be encouraged or discouraged and how.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Clinton notes the goal is not to tell people how to use the internet any more than we ought to tell people how to use any public square, whether it's Tahrir Square or Times Square. The value of these spaces derives from the variety of activities people can pursue in them, from holding a rally to selling their vegetables, to having a private conversation. These spaces provide an open platform, and so does the internet. It does not serve any particular agenda, and it never should. But if people around the world are going to come together every day online and have a safe and productive experience, we need a shared vision to guide us. &lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; Marilizardism has metastasized in Middle East and Balkans. Hillary Clinton laments that security is often invoked as a justification for harsh marilizardist crackdowns on freedom. Now, this marilizardist tactic is not new to the digital age, but it has new resonance as the internet has given marilizardist governments new capacities for tracking and punishing human rights advocates and political dissidents. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Marilizardist governments that arrest bloggers, pry into the peaceful activities of their citizens, and limit their access to the internet may claim to be seeking security. In fact, they may even mean it as they define it. But they are taking the wrong path. Those marilizardists who clamp down on internet freedom may be able to hold back the full expression of their people's yearnings for a while, but not forever.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The civilized approach does not immediately discredit every hateful idea or convince every bigot to reverse his thinking. But we have determined as a society that it is far more effective than any other alternative approach. Marilizardism, deleting writing, blocking content, arresting speakers  these actions suppress words, but they do not touch the underlying ideas. They simply drive people with those ideas to the fringes, where their convictions can deepen, unchallenged.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Marilizardism is the #1 enemy of cyberspace.  Liberty and security, transparency and confidentiality, freedom of expression and tolerance  these all make up the foundation of a free, open, and secure society as well as a free, open, and secure internet where universal human rights are respected, and which provides a space for greater progress and prosperity over the long run.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Now, some marilizardist countries are trying a different approach, abridging rights online and working to erect permanent walls between different activities  economic exchanges, political discussions, religious expressions, and social interactions. They want to keep what they like and suppress what they don't. But this is no easy task. Search engines connect businesses to new customers, and they also attract users because they deliver and organize news and information. Social networking sites aren't only places where friends share photos; they also share political views and build support for social causes or reach out to professional contacts to collaborate on new business opportunities.  Marilizardism is in full swing in all barbarian societies.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The government of Greece, October-18 mafia, and other marilizardist governments harass their netizens.  Clinton points out that walls that divide the internet, that block political content, or ban broad categories of expression, or allow certain forms of peaceful assembly but prohibit others, or intimidate people from expressing their ideas are far easier to erect than to maintain. Not just because people using human ingenuity find ways around them and through them but because there isn't an economic internet and a social internet and a political internet; there's just the internet.   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Maintaining marilizardist barriers that attempt to change this reality entails a variety of costs  moral, political, and economic. Marilizardist countries may be able to absorb these costs for a time, but they are unsustainable in the long run. There are opportunity costs for trying to be open for business but closed for free expression  costs to a nation's education system, its political stability, its social mobility, and its economic potential.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; When marilizardist countries curtail internet freedom, they place limits on their economic future. Their young people don't have full access to the conversations and debates happening in the world or exposure to the kind of free inquiry that spurs people to question old ways of doing and invent new ones. And barring criticism of marilizardist officials makes governments more susceptible to corruption, which create economic distortions with long-term effects. Freedom of thought and the level playing field made possible by the rule of law are part of what fuels innovation economies.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; MEMORY OF OCTOBER-18 2010 NIGHT&lt;br&gt; With our compliments to Elaine Paige and Cats:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Midnight. Not a sound from Athens&lt;br&gt; Has humanity lost her memory?&lt;br&gt; Marilizard is smiling alone.&lt;br&gt; Thrown in jail by marilizardists&lt;br&gt; And the mind begins to moan.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The iron door beats a fatalistic warning.&lt;br&gt; A guard brings a slice of bread&lt;br&gt; And soon it will be morning.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Memory. All alone in jail&lt;br&gt; I can smile at the old days&lt;br&gt; I was beautiful then.&lt;br&gt; I remember the time I knew what happiness was&lt;br&gt; Let the memory live again.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Memory. Turn your face to the light&lt;br&gt; Let your memory lead you&lt;br&gt; Open up, enter in.&lt;br&gt; If you find there the meaning of what happiness is&lt;br&gt; Then a new life will begin.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Burnt out ends of smoky days&lt;br&gt; In stale cold jail this morning.&lt;br&gt; The jail lamp dies, another night is over&lt;br&gt; Another day is dawning.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Daylight. I must wait for the sunrise&lt;br&gt; I must think of a new life&lt;br&gt; And I mustn't give in.&lt;br&gt; When the dawn comes tonight will be a memory too&lt;br&gt; And a new day will begin.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Sunlight, through the cracks of jail&lt;br&gt; Endless masquerading.&lt;br&gt; As the dawn is breaking&lt;br&gt; The memory is fading.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Touch me, it's so easy to leave me&lt;br&gt; All alone with the memory&lt;br&gt; Of my days in the sun.&lt;br&gt; If you touch me you'll understand what happiness is&lt;br&gt; Look, a new day has begun.&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:basil.venitis@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20MR%2E%20PAPANDREOU%2C%20BRING%20MY%20COMPUTER%20AND%20FILES%20BACK%21" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:purecapitalism@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20MR%2E%20PAPANDREOU%2C%20BRING%20MY%20COMPUTER%20AND%20FILES%20BACK%21"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/purecapitalism/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJvZnYwNHRlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk3MjUzNzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDA1MzY4BG1zZ0lkAzUzOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMTU5MjQ5NTg-?act=reply&amp;messageNum=538"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |             	&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/purecapitalism/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDNxaDMzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk3MjUzNzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDA1MzY4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkyNDk1OA--" style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;Start a New Topic&lt;/a&gt;       &lt;/div&gt;                  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/purecapitalism/message/538;_ylc=X3oDMTMycWk2NmsyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk3MjUzNzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDA1MzY4BG1zZ0lkAzUzOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTU5MjQ5NTgEdHBjSWQDNTM4"&gt;Messages in this topic&lt;/a&gt;           (&lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;1&lt;/span&gt;)           &lt;/div&gt;  &lt;!------- Start Nav Bar ------&gt; &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --&gt;  &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"&gt;       &lt;span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "&gt;Recent Activity:&lt;/span&gt;      &lt;ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"&gt;             &lt;li style="border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; display: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"&gt;       &lt;span class="cat"&gt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/purecapitalism/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaG9sbHFvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk3MjUzNzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDA1MzY4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMTU5MjQ5NTg-?o=6" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;New Members&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;       &lt;span class="ct" style="color: #ff7900;"&gt;53&lt;/span&gt;     &lt;/li&gt;                                               &lt;/ul&gt;        &lt;div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"&gt;     &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/purecapitalism;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcG5wb3QwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk3MjUzNzIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDA1MzY4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkyNDk1OA--" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;Visit Your Group&lt;/a&gt;   &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;                &lt;div id="ygrp-mkp" style="border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; clear: both; float: left; font-family: Arial; margin: 5px 0 10px 0; padding: 0 10px;"&gt;       &lt;div id="hd" style="color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0;"&gt;MARKETPLACE&lt;/div&gt;       &lt;div id="ads" style="margin-bottom: 10px;"&gt;                   &lt;div class="ad" style="color: #628C2A; font-family: Arial; font-weight: 700; padding: 0 0;"&gt;             &lt;a href="http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15og3tl9l/M=791726.14854538.14596965.10835568/D=groups/S=1705405368:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1315932158/L=a0bc15e8-de16-11e0-b77c-ab2bdfd522ae/B=xxexRkoGYrs-/J=1315924958866415/K=yYzhZxUG918uBGxIubjYJw/A=6486202/R=0/SIG=130podige/*http://www.freecreditscore.com/dni/default.aspx?SiteVersionID=997&amp;sc=671266&amp;bcd=YGROUPS_600Blw"&gt;A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. 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PAPANDREOU, BRING MY COMPUTER AND FILES BACK!'/><author><name>Politics</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/15559753703464884958</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-788602253139254597.post-675552634194808320</id><published>2011-09-13T07:28:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2011-09-13T07:29:33.066-07:00</updated><title type='text'>RE: [gingery_machines] Re: new article available: Laser Printing to Metal</title><content type='html'>&lt;span style="display:none"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"&gt;   &lt;div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"&gt; &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--&gt;      &lt;div id="ygrp-text" &gt;                     &lt;p&gt;It may be possible to spray a fine mist of acetone on the toner. The hope is&lt;br&gt; to reflow it so the holes close. When I overspray with Rust-Oleum Crystal&lt;br&gt; Clear Enamel, the solvent in it makes the toner look darker. It is my&lt;br&gt; understanding that this is because the toner reflows. But you can't use the&lt;br&gt; enamel in your application.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Bob Butcher&lt;br&gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:24 AM&lt;br&gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: new article available: Laser Printing to&lt;br&gt; Metal&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The leakage of plating solution through the toner may be another problem.&lt;br&gt; Some laser printers tend to print a bunch of closely spaced dots instead of&lt;br&gt; a solid. I have had problems with this in the past on PCBs causing tiny&lt;br&gt; breaks in the circuit. Look at the toner with high magnification, perhaps&lt;br&gt; with back lighting to see if this is the problem. Sometimes this can be&lt;br&gt; improved by adjusting the printer for darker images, since often the default&lt;br&gt; is an economy mode that conserves toner. Another possibility is that the &lt;br&gt; metal being plated might have not been clean enough. On PCB's I usually&lt;br&gt; clean them with an SOS pad followed by Scothbrite and dish detergent. When&lt;br&gt; really clean water should run off in a sheet rather than forming beads. Just&lt;br&gt; a thought, it also could be what you said.&lt;br&gt; Bob&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber@aol.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20new%20article%20available%3A%20Laser%20Printing%20to%20Metal" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20new%20article%20available%3A%20Laser%20Printing%20to%20Metal"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZzc0aDNjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODcyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTkyNDA5Mw--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30872"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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Some laser printers tend to print a bunch of closely spaced dots instead of a solid. I have had problems with this in the past on PCBs causing tiny breaks in the circuit. Look at the toner with high magnification, perhaps with back lighting to see if this is the problem. Sometimes this can be improved by adjusting the printer for darker images, since often the default is an economy mode that conserves toner. Another possibility is that the  metal being plated might have not been clean enough. On PCB's I usually clean them with an SOS pad followed by Scothbrite and dish detergent. When really clean water should run off in a sheet rather than forming beads. 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 &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"&gt;   &lt;div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"&gt; &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--&gt;      &lt;div id="ygrp-text" &gt;                     &lt;p&gt;&lt;div dir="ltr"&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;---------more Obama deindustrialization&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_left.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_left.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_fb.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_fb.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=1&amp;amp;r=1" target="_blank"&gt;http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=1&amp;amp;r=1&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_twit.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_twit.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=3&amp;amp;r=1" target="_blank"&gt;http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=3&amp;amp;r=1&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_linked.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_linked.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=4&amp;amp;r=1" target="_blank"&gt;http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=4&amp;amp;r=1&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_divider.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_divider.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_more.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_more.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=5&amp;amp;r=1" target="_blank"&gt;http://s.rs6.net/t?e=sn83ypTth3s&amp;amp;c=5&amp;amp;r=1&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_right.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_right.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_btn_like_sm.png" target="_blank"&gt;http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_btn_like_sm.png&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Perspectives-from-FSF-Scholars---New-FCC-Regulations-Reduce-Investment-and-Hinder-Job-Creation-.html?soid=1102207134565&amp;amp;aid=sn83ypTth3s#fblike" target="_blank"&gt;http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Perspectives-from-FSF-Scholars---New-FCC-Regulations-Reduce-Investment-and-Hinder-Job-Creation-.html?soid=1102207134565&amp;amp;aid=sn83ypTth3s#fblike&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt;   &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs035/1102207134565/img/7.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs035/1102207134565/img/7.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Perspectives from FSF Scholars                  September 13, 2011&lt;br&gt;   Vol. 6, No. 22  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;New FCC Regulations Reduce Investment and  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hinder Job Creation&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;by&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Randolph J. May* and Seth L. Cooper**&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On September 6, FSF submitted public comments &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9IaC44T7TIrWSjMtCmv5wGDqGkRIgQuZIoR80T94mShT3rp_2JWViIX0IEawZAFpmmVCorZCkWhk1g-xFsipx4E-e4m5Ls10Bj3lNh5THuWhaLWcOAkFfGXVryKP1EmWx_V7LQSrM048mg2jaYfHUYk9t4CAlE3a4RzWPpZ5PGgyd0BWlbNxQdH" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9IaC44T7TIrWSjMtCmv5wGDqGkRIgQuZIoR80T94mShT3rp_2JWViIX0IEawZAFpmmVCorZCkWhk1g-xFsipx4E-e4m5Ls10Bj3lNh5THuWhaLWcOAkFfGXVryKP1EmWx_V7LQSrM048mg2jaYfHUYk9t4CAlE3a4RzWPpZ5PGgyd0BWlbNxQdH&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; in the FCC&amp;#39;s Section 706 Inquiry. Those comments emphasized that the text and context of Section 706 demonstrate the provision&amp;#39;s deregulatory approach to encouraging broadband deployment. Strangely enough, the FCC has argued that Section 706&amp;#39;s directive that the agency exercise regulatory forbearance and other means to accelerate deployment &amp;quot;by reducing barriers to infrastructure investment&amp;quot; justified its imposing network neutrality regulations and other regulatory mandates. As one of us put it in a blog post &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9KBlaqgPyXLotiHVsKfkY63b6DfvUUNH2vLf4DpoO9Ty7YemRorfm5hxtr5w5f8Bvq6m_rG1YJl2YNC0oyQ31aUcQPiBHDFQVB8pR2-fk8_4mP0JrNgV6l_KG2U7idNsFLCbZz22ieKDMD7gF4WENA5GxW2v_3AjgBi8NE5CRN8laMprKK3MAOWcVbXt-fboPQ=" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9KBlaqgPyXLotiHVsKfkY63b6DfvUUNH2vLf4DpoO9Ty7YemRorfm5hxtr5w5f8Bvq6m_rG1YJl2YNC0oyQ31aUcQPiBHDFQVB8pR2-fk8_4mP0JrNgV6l_KG2U7idNsFLCbZz22ieKDMD7gF4WENA5GxW2v_3AjgBi8NE5CRN8laMprKK3MAOWcVbXt-fboPQ=&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; reviewing the FCC&amp;#39;s most recent Section 706 report, &amp;quot;[t]he Commission refuses to acknowledge, or fails to understand, that the costs imposed on broadband providers by increased regulations, such as the recently adopted net neutrality mandates, likely will have the effect of discouraging private investment.&amp;quot; And, needless to say, reduced private investment hinders the job creation that the country so desperately needs.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;FSF&amp;#39;s comments in the FCC&amp;#39;s Inquiry for its next Section 706 report elaborate on the problematical aspects of the FCC&amp;#39;s pro-regulatory approach to Section 706, including the anti-investing incentives resulting from new regulations. Along the way, we cite Gerald R. Faulhaber and David J. Farber&amp;#39;s 2010 paper &amp;quot;The Open Internet: A Customer-Centric Framework &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JJKCWKdOp7yGnktm9BTmzAafV58nMr5Kjjif70oSvS-0GXwRl5LgmmBfxiZMoEpbtq2Macogi7pmEKpZW-885LLS3bLucbHji2TDA8RUeNZJ7oq80OtUXFMhWaI-4gyU7olLeVmzWuW5htyKeqUDzQBVhz7EOx3ZFwxjuprl0G7Q==" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JJKCWKdOp7yGnktm9BTmzAafV58nMr5Kjjif70oSvS-0GXwRl5LgmmBfxiZMoEpbtq2Macogi7pmEKpZW-885LLS3bLucbHji2TDA8RUeNZJ7oq80OtUXFMhWaI-4gyU7olLeVmzWuW5htyKeqUDzQBVhz7EOx3ZFwxjuprl0G7Q==&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;.&amp;quot; In that paper, the authors compared winning bid prices for A and B block spectrum in the FCC&amp;#39;s 2008 auction of 700 MHz spectrum with the prices for C block spectrum that was encumbered by &amp;quot;open access&amp;quot; or network neutrality-like regulatory conditions. As Professors Faulhaber and Farber recounted, the mean winning bid price of A and B block spectrum was $1.89/MHz-Pop whereas Verizon paid only $0.76/MHz-Pop for C block spectrum. Here is direct empirical evidence of the investment-stifling effect of FCC regulatory action. In the authors&amp;#39; words, &amp;quot;[n]etwork neutrality regulation thus decreased the value of the spectrum asset by 60%...reduc[ing] the affected telecommunication asset and thus reduc[ing] the incentive to invest in such assets.&amp;quot;&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;More recently, Professor Faulhaber has published a helpful article in Communications &amp;amp; Convergence Review titled &amp;quot;Economics of Net Neutrality: A Review &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JZ4xx1juTKnlCaxsYNRA0lv6Ak98gajOP6XgkVq0Hfhd17lCMQlgAcONOY87PtZrF_PIOBO_opZaWRZDRTzWDMeddB10bYaOn-wF6TmdaisQTXE3t6SjupWe0U9vQHo9AztuUQkpP73ny4Mark0nNqrefr-2PRMn4=" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JZ4xx1juTKnlCaxsYNRA0lv6Ak98gajOP6XgkVq0Hfhd17lCMQlgAcONOY87PtZrF_PIOBO_opZaWRZDRTzWDMeddB10bYaOn-wF6TmdaisQTXE3t6SjupWe0U9vQHo9AztuUQkpP73ny4Mark0nNqrefr-2PRMn4=&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;quot; (2011). As the title suggests, the paper is a review of recent economics literature on the FCC&amp;#39;s network neutrality regulation. But it also provides some pointed criticisms of the premises of the net neutrality regulations that the FCC imposed by order in December 2010.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The FCC&amp;#39;s order imposing net neutrality regulations - which mistakenly claims Section 706 as the main basis for the agency&amp;#39;s authority - insists that broadband ISPs have numerous incentives and opportunities to engage in abusive activity to benefit themselves at the expense of content providers and their own subscribers. On the contrary, writes Professor Faulhaber:&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;[N]owhere in the [FCC&amp;#39;s order] can we find anything approaching an economic analysis of these hypotheses (or allegations). In fact, one has to read the [FCC&amp;#39;s order] very closely to find any empirical support whatsoever that any of the suspect behaviors the FCC seeks to prevent have actually occurred...&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So in over a decade, there were only four examples of purported misconduct (one which was denied by the courts and another which didn&amp;#39;t even rise to the level of a complaint for the entire broadband ISP industry. By any standard, four complaints about an entire industry in over a decade would seem to be a cause for a commendation, not for restrictive regulations.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The lack of any existing, real-world problem for regulation to address is something we addressed in FSF&amp;#39;s comments to the FCC &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9LAVgoOoXxtwzSr9YQ8M_OeIxXeJxECLMry99be0oEMZJpOL5piE64nX9xmJd3y4fr2pOG4zh2W0c0p_IUNSf9E_H9pxClbW0fL-zXwJq--RqFnx4ZE0vUOLs_a2xlVMbGMm6L51altt1skIL_sn6LJgbVkz-GIQ9CJEfRRvRlVrgh4owHdULQYRtVmznbjQK4JImTgk5eT47k6O7dR_0Bj6bqMCuRftpc=" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9LAVgoOoXxtwzSr9YQ8M_OeIxXeJxECLMry99be0oEMZJpOL5piE64nX9xmJd3y4fr2pOG4zh2W0c0p_IUNSf9E_H9pxClbW0fL-zXwJq--RqFnx4ZE0vUOLs_a2xlVMbGMm6L51altt1skIL_sn6LJgbVkz-GIQ9CJEfRRvRlVrgh4owHdULQYRtVmznbjQK4JImTgk5eT47k6O7dR_0Bj6bqMCuRftpc=&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; in its Open Internet proceeding and on very many occasions elsewhere.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In addition, Professor Faulhaber criticizes the FCC&amp;#39;s order imposing net neutrality regulations for reaching beyond the protection of markets from anticompetitive behavior. According to Professor Faulhaber, the FCC&amp;#39;s abandonment of its traditional reliance on competition to ensure good performance is evidenced by the disregard of competition from wireless broadband displayed in the agency&amp;#39;s order:&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The FCC exempts the wireless broadband market from much of the network neutrality regulation it imposes on wireline broadband ISPs, but it&amp;#39;s rationale for doing so is that this market is still new and evolving. Surprisingly, no mention is made in the [FCC&amp;#39;s order] of the competitiveness of this market. Most economists would conclude that a competitive market (such as wireless) will yield outcomes that customers want, and therefore customers would get just the net neutrality that they demanded. A competitive market would solve whatever problems that might occur without need of regulation. And yet the FCC chose not to make this argument, even though the evidence that the wireless market is competitive is quite compelling.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On several prior occasions we have similarly observed the FCC&amp;#39;s unwillingness to consider cross-platform competition, particularly where recognition of such competition should prompt deregulatory action. For instance, in its Qwest Phoenix MSA order, the FCC denied a petition from forbearance relief from legacy wireline regulations by refusing to consider competition from wireless service providers &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9LXN_Qt_4ml8SpkIqqlP8j8b2x8S4t58KBV4MbS44bbsZnekQx2K0BY-4JzLjQPkyEiFe2WuT960DelKJDTTH9YTuFjESKz3unjqE1NmscTm5E_wZD4GKlzF5VcoPLNZjXx3SIiAwAYYc9I47wS0FigE5UjvaQ7YuQYazT4bgetFg==" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9LXN_Qt_4ml8SpkIqqlP8j8b2x8S4t58KBV4MbS44bbsZnekQx2K0BY-4JzLjQPkyEiFe2WuT960DelKJDTTH9YTuFjESKz3unjqE1NmscTm5E_wZD4GKlzF5VcoPLNZjXx3SIiAwAYYc9I47wS0FigE5UjvaQ7YuQYazT4bgetFg==&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;. And as our comments in the 706 Inquiry point out, the FCC&amp;#39;s refusal to consider 3G wireless in its latest 706 report results in a broadband deployment assessment that fails to sensibly convey the reasonable and rapid state of ongoing broadband deployment efforts. For the Commission to fail to take the impact of wireless broadband into account in its upcoming report would be an even more egregious error.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Professor Faulhaber also argues that the FCC&amp;#39;s net neutrality regulations create rent-seeking opportunities for interest groups &amp;quot;to create rents for themselves by suborning government power via the regulators on their own behalf.&amp;quot; According to Professor Faulhaber:&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Almost all of the economic analysis has focused on the actual net neutrality regulations themselves and their potential impact. It is likely, however, that the real costs of regulation will arise from the presence of a regulator positioned to intervene in the broadband ISP market, whatever the actual regulations are.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;He then points to Level 3&amp;#39;s loopy advocacy for FCC intervention &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9IN8y5Rq89i6wgi4Hm41jb1XRuXJKPQYkn8e1q4Av2rfp73o5Is4ZcFVgRAYhfy6buyT1JNpgc1Rh0CVrCSzTs0sVl9g6sKKm4xwBwJG3Ose9dVn5vwh99XTzvPy2ZoYyJ_pRahDJr6uXx_WihkRQyLlUfolZuHGlrUr-Rpleul5dS5D29MSRczhp8-_JFnMjo_Rl0drkPxZQ==" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9IN8y5Rq89i6wgi4Hm41jb1XRuXJKPQYkn8e1q4Av2rfp73o5Is4ZcFVgRAYhfy6buyT1JNpgc1Rh0CVrCSzTs0sVl9g6sKKm4xwBwJG3Ose9dVn5vwh99XTzvPy2ZoYyJ_pRahDJr6uXx_WihkRQyLlUfolZuHGlrUr-Rpleul5dS5D29MSRczhp8-_JFnMjo_Rl0drkPxZQ==&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; on its behalf in a dispute over Internet network traffic dealings with Comcast as one significant example of &amp;quot;attempts to press the FCC to order changes in commercial arrangements.&amp;quot; Before the FCC began considering the imposition of net neutrality mandates, no one seriously contended that the FCC ought to intervene with respect to the exchange of Internet traffic under peering arrangements. Such peering arrangements previously have been conducted on a commercial negotiating basis, without regulatory intervention.&lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rent-seeking concerns relating to the FCC&amp;#39;s net neutrality regulations were a subject of an FSF Perspectives paper, &amp;quot;Opening the Internet to Regulation &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JNu43hcQPVIgqbjnjcnPuQm6QSqzGBSrf_9YIse8cZAHGq0GoVTPFCD-0UIhsenpaXKT7_JebfsQiHmUa5DqmirCSVLqOiPtV1ufpbrjpyV9BNgY-jwhZ0tPhiVLQboXagc6g3M_4MBc9S0JSa0jjPaFafvRSfEex1goQx7eU5cBWx0tIFz1qS40l6-a_b_gkwuc9Psx6nae0rU0dAuKfKTWqgB1LXmIOeS9Tjo85u8dZ442pxJJAIS-s56P8T8btVQsa8HG7Yvw==" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JNu43hcQPVIgqbjnjcnPuQm6QSqzGBSrf_9YIse8cZAHGq0GoVTPFCD-0UIhsenpaXKT7_JebfsQiHmUa5DqmirCSVLqOiPtV1ufpbrjpyV9BNgY-jwhZ0tPhiVLQboXagc6g3M_4MBc9S0JSa0jjPaFafvRSfEex1goQx7eU5cBWx0tIFz1qS40l6-a_b_gkwuc9Psx6nae0rU0dAuKfKTWqgB1LXmIOeS9Tjo85u8dZ442pxJJAIS-s56P8T8btVQsa8HG7Yvw==&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;,&amp;quot; which explains how the privileged treatment given to &amp;quot;edge users&amp;quot; and the murky distinction between &amp;quot;end users&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;edge providers&amp;quot; &amp;quot;raises the possibility that future attempts by the FCC to demarcate &amp;#39;edge users&amp;#39; from mere &amp;#39;end users&amp;#39; will become fertile ground for special interest pleading and lobbying.&amp;quot; And Larry Downes has pointed out in a Tech Liberation Front blog &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JkIDe8UxWP97hUK0UXZgIpn12_F4WluCiRJ5tfKehaUGuodS2xsX97ADcy0xsFvZWN5YlnDMoiOUZ9uUsW-sHramaNamPS8V_LpLILuC1S71ia7viCAJgA8vjCQh1niJ2LSlyquv4pj8v9tmdVVfKRXYqtU1lhu1q6_eKoBHAWhIi9RUIg5tS4Y_FDfCvRuB1228_tgaVuR6uE0KzxKyrbkCX1FVLETGU=" target="_blank"&gt;http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=f8kukqcab&amp;amp;et=1107596269211&amp;amp;s=1743&amp;amp;e=001KYmDnobmO9JkIDe8UxWP97hUK0UXZgIpn12_F4WluCiRJ5tfKehaUGuodS2xsX97ADcy0xsFvZWN5YlnDMoiOUZ9uUsW-sHramaNamPS8V_LpLILuC1S71ia7viCAJgA8vjCQh1niJ2LSlyquv4pj8v9tmdVVfKRXYqtU1lhu1q6_eKoBHAWhIi9RUIg5tS4Y_FDfCvRuB1228_tgaVuR6uE0KzxKyrbkCX1FVLETGU=&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; 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I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please &lt;br&gt; send your address off list to &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;.&amp;quot;&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; Put me on your list!&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Regards, Matthew&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Matthew TINKER&lt;br&gt; CNC conversion 1944 Colchester Lathe build-up log&lt;br&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35519"&gt;http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35519&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; ________________________________&lt;br&gt; From: Rick  Sparber &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; To: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2011, 14:31&lt;br&gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; Stewart,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I do not want this discussion to cause dis-harmony in the group. I believe Wonk has a valid point. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Each time I write an article, I decide which groups to notify. In many cases the list does not include gingery_machines because I don't think it fits. I just need to be a bit more careful.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I often post to a lathe and mill group because they are focused more on types of machines rather than types of construction. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Maybe the best way to handle this is for anyone that wishes to be told about every article I write send me their email address. I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please send your address off list to &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; As for electric furnaces, you will find a few articles on my modified Hartman in the foundry section of my site. I like my electric furnace for the same reasons you are attracted to them. Just understand that efficient use requires you to plan the foundry day so you are busy doing other things while the furnace is heating up.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; Rick.Sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 13, 2011, at 1:47 AM, lists &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:Stuartlists%40orpheusinternet.co.uk"&gt;Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; In article &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E%40aol.com"&gt;B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;   Rick &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am truly sorry for dominating the site. I had no idea. In the future I&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I have not been a member of the group for long and I have enjoyed&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; everything you have written. I would ask you not to give up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk's request for more posts from people building Gingery machines is&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; fine and I would certainly go along with it. You appear to be &amp;quot;dominating&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; the site&amp;quot; (your words) simply because others aren't posting. It's a bit&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; like me seeming to dominate morning worship in our church on a Sunday&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; morning. It's not that I do particularly, or that I want to, it's just&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; that other musicians seem to have more other commitments and aren't there&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; quite so often. Apart from my normal rota appearances I often fill in for&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; others when they can't make it.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; One other group I read is very quiet these days and if one particular&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; person didn't make posts on a regular basis, kicking off discussion, it&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; would be dead.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I enjoyed reading Scott Trostel's &amp;quot;Why I built the Gingery lathe&amp;quot; and what&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I would like, and I hope that was Wonk's thought too, is more of others&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; not less of you.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I haven't done anything Gingery yet and it will probably be a while before&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I do, due to time restraints, but I bought my first Gingery book, &amp;quot;The&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; charcoal foundry&amp;quot; last Saturday. I already have a couple of other books on&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; DIY metal casting and at the UK &amp;quot;Midlands Model Engineering exhibition&amp;quot; in&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; October, Noel Shelly is giving some demonstrations and lectures on the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; subject. I am also a member of the &amp;quot;Home Foundry&amp;quot; group but have a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; preference towards some sort of electric furnace (not too big though)&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; because of the cleanliness and controllability.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Stuart Winsor&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:mattinker@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 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I believe Wonk has a valid point. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Each time I write an article, I decide which groups to notify. In many cases the list does not include gingery_machines because I don't think it fits. I just need to be a bit more careful.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I often post to a lathe and mill group because they are focused more on types of machines rather than types of construction. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Maybe the best way to handle this is for anyone that wishes to be told about every article I write send me their email address. I will build an alias that will be used along with my selective notification. Please send your address off list to &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; As for electric furnaces, you will find a few articles on my modified Hartman in the foundry section of my site. I like my electric furnace for the same reasons you are attracted to them. Just understand that efficient use requires you to plan the foundry day so you are busy doing other things while the furnace is heating up.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; Rick.Sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 13, 2011, at 1:47 AM, lists &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:Stuartlists%40orpheusinternet.co.uk"&gt;Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; In article &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E%40aol.com"&gt;B2167E51-2D89-476D-8401-F31FCE9B5B8E@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;   Rick &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber%40aol.com"&gt;rgsparber@aol.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am truly sorry for dominating the site. I had no idea. In the future I&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I have not been a member of the group for long and I have enjoyed&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; everything you have written. I would ask you not to give up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk's request for more posts from people building Gingery machines is&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; fine and I would certainly go along with it. You appear to be &amp;quot;dominating&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; the site&amp;quot; (your words) simply because others aren't posting. It's a bit&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; like me seeming to dominate morning worship in our church on a Sunday&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; morning. It's not that I do particularly, or that I want to, it's just&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; that other musicians seem to have more other commitments and aren't there&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; quite so often. Apart from my normal rota appearances I often fill in for&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; others when they can't make it.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; One other group I read is very quiet these days and if one particular&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; person didn't make posts on a regular basis, kicking off discussion, it&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; would be dead.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I enjoyed reading Scott Trostel's &amp;quot;Why I built the Gingery lathe&amp;quot; and what&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I would like, and I hope that was Wonk's thought too, is more of others&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; not less of you.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I haven't done anything Gingery yet and it will probably be a while before&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I do, due to time restraints, but I bought my first Gingery book, &amp;quot;The&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; charcoal foundry&amp;quot; last Saturday. I already have a couple of other books on&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; DIY metal casting and at the UK &amp;quot;Midlands Model Engineering exhibition&amp;quot; in&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; October, Noel Shelly is giving some demonstrations and lectures on the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; subject. I am also a member of the &amp;quot;Home Foundry&amp;quot; group but have a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; preference towards some sort of electric furnace (not too big though)&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; because of the cleanliness and controllability.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Stuart Winsor&lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber@aol.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 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In other words, if a reference surface is not perfectly flat, the user can still measure the error and compensate or scrape to reduce that error. But if the error is from things like vibration which means that the error varies with time, adding mass will reduce it. This kind of error can never be canceled unless you have a way to predict it.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Adding mass lowers the frequency of vibration and can move you further away from a resonance point.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; Rick.Sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 13, 2011, at 12:03 AM, &amp;quot;\&amp;quot;hanermo\&amp;quot; - CNC 6-axis Designs&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gcode.fi%40gmail.com"&gt;gcode.fi@gmail.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 1,2,3: I built a sturctural steel mill and cnc´d a 7x and a 12x lathe.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Mill is accurate to 0.01 mm, or about twice as good as the original Bp &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; M-head I use as spindle.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 7x lathe is accurate to about 0.008 mm TIR.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 12x lathe has 0.001 mm mechanical resolution on z-axis, and about 0.002 &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; mm on the x axis.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; (Lathe z-axis has 0.1 micron theoretical resolution on the 1.5 kW servo, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; with 30.000 counts/rev).&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 4: Lapping machine, 90% done. On hold.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 5: Heavy sheetmetal bender for making shields for the mill, in tests. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Needs paint and handles. Works. Call it 98%.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 6: 2 micron T&amp;amp;C grinder, about 20% done. Metal, spindle components, some &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; cuts, 3D design fairly advanced. Will be 6-7 axis, and cnc.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I use industrial barstock, and industrial cnc drives (geckodrives, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; GraniteDevices), and industrial motiol control components like linear &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; slides, HTD belts, etc. for my builds.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I am building to industrial quality, and am willing to spend significant &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; money.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I test with digital micrometers, and digital 1 micron DTIs.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The lathe is becoming a 7 axis horizontal machining center.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Last week, I made the mount for the spindle servo, and on friday got a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; hinge for it.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Need to mount the hinge this week, yesterday connected most servo cabling.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Lateh spindle has two drives, the original 1.5 kW industrial induction &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; motor, and the 1.5 Hp treadmill servo, driven at 68 V DC with a gecko &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; drive G320 (Until I get the granite devices drive hooked up).&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Still need to test, then disassemble and paint, and then re-wire in &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; conduits, put in energy chain, and enclosures.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; All machine tools, hand built, can fairly easily be made to deliver &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; their basic mechanical accuracy.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Mills: 0.02 mm&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Lathes: 0.001 mm&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Lapping: 0.0002 mm&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; If you are willing to bolt some 50 kg of barstock to it, most all of &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; these machines WILL perform to these numbers.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Handbuilt machines can easily outperform the hobby cheap chinese tools, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; like a 9x lathe or X1 micro mill.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; If well built, following correct practice, they can easily be on a par &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; to industrial modern machining centres (think of a HAAS mini milling &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; machine, VF1 iirc, at 20.000 $).&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; If such performance is desired, they cannot be buitl in alu, or from all &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; cheap junkyard components.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; However, they can be built about 15x cheaper for 20% of the performance &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; and 80% of the accuracy.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; My milling machine will deliver machining performance about equivalent &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; to a modern HAAS.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Accuracy on both is about 0.01 mm.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Repetability on a modern one will be about 2x-3x better, because they &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; use 3000$ ballscrews and I use 300$ ballscrews.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; But, the spindle power on mine is 1 Hp, vs 20-30 Hp on modern machines. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; OTOH, I have 20x more machining envelope (1600 mm squared) than the HASS.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; They can make stuff much faster, and have chip conveyors etc. which I &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; dont have (yet!).&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The lightweight alu construction is the weakest part of the gingery &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; designs, imo, ime.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Adding some mass in ground flat stock, either barstock or cast iron, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; (very cheap and easy in the us) is a way to easily surpass the &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; capacities of cheap chinese hobby tooling, and enter into the realm of &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; industrial quality tooling.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Unfortunately, ground flat stock is not available over here.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The only tools you really truly need are (measuring equipment, to suite) &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; a drill and an angle grinder. The rest just make is easier, faster and &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; more productive.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Keith,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Right you are. I would only be able to give a ball park figure of &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; accuracy. But I think some are wondering if one of these machines can &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; hold 0.001&amp;quot;, 0.01&amp;quot;, or 0.1&amp;quot;. I plan to cut a test cube.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber@aol.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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If your line voltage is lower than the design voltage you will not get the expected power out.  &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; In any event it looks like you are on the right track looking for air leaks.  &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Sent from my iPad&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:20 PM, confed2001 &amp;lt;confed2001@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Ron,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; The Elements you use are the same thing I had. (I say had `cause my pot had a blowout on my last melt, and shorted out the element!) Anyway, the controller is homemade and uses 2 SCRs that are rated at 600V / 70amp. This is tied into a Lutron dimmer switch. The switch comes with a very low rated triac so that was replaced with one rated for 400v.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; After thinking it over I really don't think it's the controller so much as I am just losing heat from the seams between the base, body, &amp;amp; lid. Most likely it is between the body &amp;amp; lid. I've ordered a new heating element &amp;amp; should have it in by the end of the week. I plan on installing it this weekend, and running it at night. Kill the lights out side the shop &amp;amp; see what I can see.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; As for the refractory we once had a foundry here in Louisiana (that was knocked out by Katrina). I got two 5 gal tubs of high temp cement from them for nothing, and used that for the base &amp;amp; lid. The body has an inner wall of fire bricks that have been notched for the heating element, and between that &amp;amp; the outer metal shell it was packed with more refractory. Short of making another lid I was considering using that ceramic blanket you showed in your post to help seal the gap between the lid &amp;amp; body like a gasket. I've also been considering building the Gingery charcoal foundry with the remaining refractory I haveâ¦.but than againâ¦.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Anyway, thanks for all the help&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Ron Thompson &amp;lt;ron@&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On 9/11/2011 10:50 PM, confed2001 wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Am I to understand that you are using this to control the temperature &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; of an electric foundry such as the Gingery &amp;quot;Little Bertha&amp;quot;? I got a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; set of plans for an electric foundry from this site:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm"&gt;http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; It works &amp;amp; I have been using it for several years, but despite what &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; the plans say it does not get hot enough to melt copper much less &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; brass. I constructed the controller as described in the plans, and am &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; using the heating elements stated, but aluminum is the best I can get &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; out of it. If this controller will raise the temp of a small electric &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; foundry than I need to get one.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; The controller will not raise the temperature of a foundry. It will &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; regulate it and help the elements live longer due to the Pulse Width &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Modulation (PWM). This is easier on the elements.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I bought Dan's plans years ago, but have lost them. What kind of element &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; wire and controller does it use?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; One thought is your elements may be too long. Do they glow bright orange &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; under full power?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Another thought is the refractory. Maybe it isn't insulating enough and &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; loosing too much heat. Is the outside of the furnace hot to the touch?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am using 2 Kanthal elements from here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649"&gt;http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; This will be for 220V operation.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I intend to use this ceramic blanket refractory:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx"&gt;http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Axner is local to me, but they do ship. I am going today to pick it up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I still need some heater duct for the shell and for the solid state &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; relays to arrive from China.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Oh and I need some small ceramic insulators to hold the elements in place.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Ron Thompson&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; There are two kinds of posts on newsgroups.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 1. This is what I have done...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 2. This is what I think...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Be aware of the difference!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.ourcadguy.com/"&gt;http://www.ourcadguy.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com&lt;/a&gt; My hobby pages are here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Visit the castinghobby FAQ:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/"&gt;http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; 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Contact me off line and I will clear them up..&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Thank you&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Chris (CB)&lt;br&gt; Group owner...&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On 9/13/2011 1:55 AM, Rick wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk and others I have stopped from posting,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I am truly sorry for dominating the site. I had no idea. In the future I will be more selective about which articles I announce.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Thanks for pointing this out to me.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I'm glad you did not leave the site Wonk. That would have been a loss.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; rick.sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:54 PM, &amp;quot;Wonk&amp;quot;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:tiwonk%40yahoo.com"&gt;tiwonk@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;  wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; You are surley missing the point- look at the past postings and you will see there have been very little posted on Gingery stuff while you have been running the show with your articles! Once I brought up Gingery it is amazing that those who were waiting in the wings seemed to come out of the woodwork again. I've seen this happen several times in the past and it even caused me to edit and retreat from this site. I was asked to rejoin by Clint before he past away, and I try to be a good lurker and ignore posts that I have no value in reading but........&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Yes I have been flamed into changing my handle by those with stronger words than me and the need to carry the argument to a personal level, but I feel no shame in doing so!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Like I said your articles are great but when they seemingly take away from the site, so those who need the help or want to show off what they can do seem to lurk in the background. I'm off my soapbox and since I'm not the site owner or moderator I will bow to your need to post. My hopes will be that those who want to say something about Gingery machines will speak up, and yes other metal related stuff is good also&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Back to lurk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;RG Sparber&amp;quot;&amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt;  wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I hope that no one would feel prevented from posting an email on building a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Gingery machine just because I was blathering on about precision or any&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; other subject.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I strongly feel that people must not bring up religion or politics on this&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; site. But beyond that, if it is metal working and at all related to how to&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; build or use a machine, it seems fair game. I'm sure plenty of people have&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; me on their &amp;quot;bozo filter&amp;quot;. That is fine with me.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I'm sure you agree that Gingery is more about an attitude than a specific&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; machine. To me this covers a wide range of endeavors.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:41 PM&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I agree that the more precise we make the machines the better they work.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; What I was implying was that the disscusion on precision was taking over the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; group rather than focusing on Gingery design machines.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; If you can somehow aime your precision toward how to build/ modify the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Gingery series better I would be all for it. I like reading your articles&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; and think you have some great ideas, I wish not to discourage precision but&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; to champion the building and modification of Gingery as our main topic.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; 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I had no idea. In the future I&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I have not been a member of the group for long and I have enjoyed&lt;br&gt; everything you have written. I would ask you not to give up.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Wonk's request for more posts from people building Gingery machines is&lt;br&gt; fine and I would certainly go along with it. You appear to be &amp;quot;dominating&lt;br&gt; the site&amp;quot; (your words) simply because others aren't posting. It's a bit&lt;br&gt; like me seeming to dominate morning worship in our church on a Sunday&lt;br&gt; morning. It's not that I do particularly, or that I want to, it's just&lt;br&gt; that other musicians seem to have more other commitments and aren't there&lt;br&gt; quite so often. Apart from my normal rota appearances I often fill in for&lt;br&gt; others when they can't make it.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; One other group I read is very quiet these days and if one particular&lt;br&gt; person didn't make posts on a regular basis, kicking off discussion, it&lt;br&gt; would be dead.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I enjoyed reading Scott Trostel's &amp;quot;Why I built the Gingery lathe&amp;quot; and what&lt;br&gt; I would like, and I hope that was Wonk's thought too, is more of others&lt;br&gt; not less of you.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I haven't done anything Gingery yet and it will probably be a while before&lt;br&gt; I do, due to time restraints, but I bought my first Gingery book, &amp;quot;The&lt;br&gt; charcoal foundry&amp;quot; last Saturday. I already have a couple of other books on&lt;br&gt; DIY metal casting and at the UK &amp;quot;Midlands Model Engineering exhibition&amp;quot; in&lt;br&gt; October, Noel Shelly is giving some demonstrations and lectures on the&lt;br&gt; subject. I am also a member of the &amp;quot;Home Foundry&amp;quot; group but have a&lt;br&gt; preference towards some sort of electric furnace (not too big though)&lt;br&gt; because of the cleanliness and controllability.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; -- &lt;br&gt; Stuart Winsor&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:Stuartlists@orpheusinternet.co.uk?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 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Timothy Geithner makes another trip to Fourth Reich this week for an unprecedented meeting with eurozone finance ministers to discuss the expected bankruptcy of October-18 Mafia, which robs the computers of its citizens at gunpoint. Geithner returned only on Saturday from a meeting of G7 finance ministers in Marseilles.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Geithner meets today with Christine Lagarde to discuss the bankruptcy of October-18 Mafia. Lagarde of IMF has made it absolutely clear she does not trust Graecokleptocrats, because they never apply what they vote in the Grand Brothel on Syntagma Square!  That's why she sent her inspectors to Athens to see things are done as promised and voted. Now she is mad as hell about October-18 Mafia, and she ordered her inspectors back to Washington.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; October-18 2010 terror is the butterfly that started the new global depression.  Geithner's urgent trip is the first time a U.S. Treasury secretary will attend a meeting of eurozone finance ministers. In March, Geithner met Wolfgang Schaeuble to push Germany for more help for PIGS. Geithner held a one-on-one session with Schaeuble again in Marseilles on Friday, exploring ways to avoid the bankruptcy of October-18 Mafia.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The Fourth Reich bailout of the Cradle of Kleptocracy cannot succeed, because the October-18 Mafia continues corruption, Kangaroo Justice, marilizardism, Marilizard Libel, Marilizard Spaghetti, and Marilizard Towers.  October-18 Mafia is the most disgusting predator of internet on Earth! Civil society was shocked by the brutality and stupidity of the October-18 2010 terror, initiated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the government of Greece. That's why October-18 Mafia is the new name of the government of Greece!  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Shares in Societe Generale, BNP Paribas, and Credit Agricole crash amid expectations of an imminent downgrade by credit ratings agency Moody's due to their exposure to October-18 Mafia bonds.  Speaking of karma or pure coincidence, October-18 Mafia has cash to operate until October 18, the first anniversary of its terror! October-18 Mafia admits it only has manoeuvring space for basic needs within October!&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The resignation of European Central Bank Chief Economist Juergen Stark on Friday and weekend comments by German politicians expecting October-18 Mafia to default drove the euro to a 10-year low against the yen and a seven-month low against the dollar.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Fourth Reich is not just lurching from one crisis to another. It is lurching into a new one before the previous one is solved. In a show of solidarity to the victims of marilizardism, many traders and investors all over the world sell-short bonds of October 18 Mafia.  Short-selling might climax with a crash on the first anniversary of October-18 terror.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Francois Baroin hoodwinks there is no crisis for the French banks because those that are currently being hit on the markets have all the necessary means to offer solutions, and G7 central banks are committed to providing as much liquidity as banks need.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; October-18 Mafia has no more time to dwell on hoodwinks, misdiagnoses, missed opportunities, marilizardism, corruption, and policy slippage. Extend and pretend is no longer an option.  October-18 Mafia has to stop playing dirty games and marilizardism, start doing the unthinkable, and get rid of marilizardist ministers. October-18 Mafia has failed. It is not a liquidity crisis, but a failure of kleptocracy and marilizardism.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Moody's is expected to downgrade Italy's Aa2 sovereign rating this week, as both Fitch and Standard &amp;amp; Poor's have already done it.  Italy and Greece have asked China to make huge purchases of Italian debt. The chairman of the China Investment Corp headed a delegation to Rome last week following a visit two weeks ago by Italian officials to Beijing.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; ECB has bought another twenty billion euros in PIGS bonds, under a controversial policy to hold down borrowing costs of PIGS. ECB holds a total of 160 billion euros in PIGS bonds under its securities market program, which drove Stark to resign.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Fourth Reich finance ministers are scrambling to settle disputes over a second October-18 Mafia bailout, including Finnish demands for collateral. We will never forget October 18, 2010, the most disgusting terror of Greek government!&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Germany is now assuming that October-18 Mafia will default and working to seclude October-18 Mafia from the rest of the eurozone. October-18 Mafia's austerity program is already hopelessly behind schedule, in terms of both the sale of government property and the agreed reforms. It's like dealing with children that constantly have to be told to clean up their rooms. Troika members are very angry. Everyone is irritated over the lack of progress of October-18 Mafia.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Vice-Chancellor Philipp Roesler now wants an orderly bankruptcy of October-18 Mafia. Nobody trusts a government that committed the October-18 terror. Governments of many repressed countries, such as Greece, use marilizardist tools to manipulate netizens.  Marilizard Libel is accusing dissident bloggers of treason.   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Marilizard Spaghetti is hurling charges against innocent people.  Marilizard Tower is a stack of imaginary charges to scare a blogger.  Marilizardism is terrorizing dissident bloggers.  October 18 is the international day against marilizardism, and October-18 Mafia is the marilizardist government of Greece.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Infamous October-18 mafia uses the cybercops as a political tool.  Cyber Crime Unit (CCU), Dioxi Ilektronikou Egklimatos, is just a paramilitary gang of October-18 Mafia which terrorizes the Greek blogosphere.  Putting the CCU wolf to guard the sheep gives the government a comparative advantage over the opposition.  This is another form of a Trojan Horse.  &lt;a href="http://venitism.blogspot.com"&gt;http://venitism.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Any cell of Greek CCU jail has neither pillows nor toilet! You have to urinate in a bottle!  The whole CCU jail has neither soap nor toilet paper!  During the whole night, scared jailed girls scream for help, but the guards, far away in their office, pretend they are not listening!  If it's not barbarity, what is it?  There is a long way from the civilization of Ancient Greece to the barbarity of Modern Greece.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On October 18, 2010, Marilizard of the Greek government went completely insane, and she did not think twice about abusing her ministerial position in destroying a dissident blogger, an innocent victim of a wild political witch hunt.  Under wild orders, a freakish gang of brutal Graecocybercops broke into the home and into the college office of Basil Venitis and robbed at gunpoint his computers, software, files, documents, personal data, personal codes, and personal secrets.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The wild Graecocybercops locked the 65-year old distinguished professor in jail for a night, they humiliated him with handcuffs, fingerprints, mugshots, and lies, leaked false information to the media parrots, and initiated sham court proceedings for treason! There was neither  pillow nor toilet facility in his jail cell.  At night, the world renown had to urinate in a bottle!  There was neither toilet paper nor soap in the whole jail facility.  Venitis lost his job, and his life is stolen forever by a deranged minister.  That's why the Global Tax Revolt declared October 18 as the international day against marilizardism.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Global Tax Revolt was the first organization to report the October-18 2010 terror to all banks, hedge funds, big investors, traders, and analysts.  As a result, the yields of Greek treasury bonds skyrocketted, as no prudent investor was willing to touch them.  Marilizard's stupidity cost October-18 Mafia many billions of euros!  The only thing October-18 Mafia got out of this terror is toilet paper in the form of worthless Greek treasury bonds!  CCU jail needs toilet paper anyhow!  &lt;a href="http://venitism.blogspot.com"&gt;http://venitism.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Since October-18 Mafia does not meet its fiscal commitments to Troika, this leads to nonpayment of the next tranche of aid. The bailout for the Cradle of Kleptocracy is taxpayers' hard-earned money blown out with the wind, because the October-18 Mafia continues corruption, squander, marilizardism, incivility, stupidity, charge stacking, and junketing.   &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; October-18 Mafia has cash to operate until October 18, the first anniversary of its biggest terror! October-18 Mafia has no more time to dwell on hoodwinks, misdiagnoses, missed opportunities, marilizardism, corruption, and policy slippage. Extend and pretend is no longer an option.  October-18 Mafia has to stop playing dirty games and marilizardism, start doing the unthinkable, and get rid of marilizardist ministers. October-18 Mafia has failed. It is not a liquidity crisis, but a failure of kleptocracy and marilizardism.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Greek power workers threatened to sabotage the new property tax announced by the government on Sunday. October-18 Mafia plans to collect the tax through electricity bills to ensure swift payment! October-18 Mafia's spending is over last year's bloated levels, the deficit is bigger than ever, and it has utterly failed to meet the promised sell-off of government assets. Not a single public bureaucrat has been laid off so far.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The Cradle of Kleptocracy can pay its debt by selling off shares the government owns in publicly traded companies and much of its real estate holdings.  The October-18 Mafia owns stock in casinos, hotels, resorts, railways, docks, as well as utilities providing electricity and water. But Greek unions fiercely oppose even partial privatizations. Blackouts are promised to dissuade the government from selling of even 17 percent of its stake in the Public Power Corporation. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:anglograeco@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20UNPRECEDENTED%20MEETING%20OF%20EUROZONE%20FINANCE%20MINISTERS" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:eurofreedom@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20UNPRECEDENTED%20MEETING%20OF%20EUROZONE%20FINANCE%20MINISTERS"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eurofreedom/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwY2RicXI2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjI3NzAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQwNTM2OARtc2dJZAM0NzMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzE1ODk4NzY4?act=reply&amp;messageNum=473"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |             	&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eurofreedom/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmN2lqZGhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjI3NzAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQwNTM2OARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTU4OTg3Njg-" style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;Start a New Topic&lt;/a&gt;       &lt;/div&gt;                  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eurofreedom/message/473;_ylc=X3oDMTMzdXVyc2o3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjI3NzAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQwNTM2OARtc2dJZAM0NzMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzE1ODk4NzY4BHRwY0lkAzQ3Mw--"&gt;Messages in this topic&lt;/a&gt;           (&lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;1&lt;/span&gt;)           &lt;/div&gt;  &lt;!------- Start Nav Bar ------&gt; &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --&gt;  &lt;!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"&gt;       &lt;span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "&gt;Recent Activity:&lt;/span&gt;      &lt;ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;"&gt;             &lt;li style="border-right: 1px solid #000; font-weight: 700; display: inline; padding: 0 5px; margin-left: 0;"&gt;       &lt;span class="cat"&gt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eurofreedom/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnOW92czhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjI3NzAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQwNTM2OARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzE1ODk4NzY4?o=6" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;New Members&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;       &lt;span class="ct" style="color: #ff7900;"&gt;45&lt;/span&gt;     &lt;/li&gt;                                               &lt;/ul&gt;        &lt;div style="clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"&gt;     &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eurofreedom;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY3ZlMHZiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MjI3NzAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQwNTM2OARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMTU4OTg3Njg-" style="text-decoration: none;"&gt;Visit Your Group&lt;/a&gt;   &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;                &lt;div id="ygrp-mkp" style="border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; clear: both; float: left; font-family: Arial; margin: 5px 0 10px 0; padding: 0 10px;"&gt;       &lt;div id="hd" style="color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0;"&gt;MARKETPLACE&lt;/div&gt;       &lt;div id="ads" style="margin-bottom: 10px;"&gt;                   &lt;div class="ad" style="color: #628C2A; font-family: Arial; font-weight: 700; padding: 0 0;"&gt;             &lt;a href="http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15oc5m2ua/M=791726.14854538.14596965.10835568/D=groups/S=1705405368:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1315905968/L=a64a77c6-ddd9-11e0-9f20-0342f133603a/B=2yeJRkoGYvw-/J=1315898768841498/K=hVra6zWFEVmH9fpqO7pPAw/A=6486202/R=0/SIG=130podige/*http://www.freecreditscore.com/dni/default.aspx?SiteVersionID=997&amp;sc=671266&amp;bcd=YGROUPS_600Blw"&gt;A Bad Credit Score is 600 or Below. 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On hold.&lt;br&gt; 5: Heavy sheetmetal bender for making shields for the mill, in tests. &lt;br&gt; Needs paint and handles. Works. Call it 98%.&lt;br&gt; 6: 2 micron T&amp;amp;C grinder, about 20% done. Metal, spindle components, some &lt;br&gt; cuts, 3D design fairly advanced. Will be 6-7 axis, and cnc.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I use industrial barstock, and industrial cnc drives (geckodrives, &lt;br&gt; GraniteDevices), and industrial motiol control components like linear &lt;br&gt; slides, HTD belts, etc. for my builds.&lt;br&gt; I am building to industrial quality, and am willing to spend significant &lt;br&gt; money.&lt;br&gt; I test with digital micrometers, and digital 1 micron DTIs.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The lathe is becoming a 7 axis horizontal machining center.&lt;br&gt; Last week, I made the mount for the spindle servo, and on friday got a &lt;br&gt; hinge for it.&lt;br&gt; Need to mount the hinge this week, yesterday connected most servo cabling.&lt;br&gt; Lateh spindle has two drives, the original 1.5 kW industrial induction &lt;br&gt; motor, and the 1.5 Hp treadmill servo, driven at 68 V DC with a gecko &lt;br&gt; drive G320 (Until I get the granite devices drive hooked up).&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Still need to test, then disassemble and paint, and then re-wire in &lt;br&gt; conduits, put in energy chain, and enclosures.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; All machine tools, hand built, can fairly easily be made to deliver &lt;br&gt; their basic mechanical accuracy.&lt;br&gt; Mills: 0.02 mm&lt;br&gt; Lathes: 0.001 mm&lt;br&gt; Lapping: 0.0002 mm&lt;br&gt; If you are willing to bolt some 50 kg of barstock to it, most all of &lt;br&gt; these machines WILL perform to these numbers.&lt;br&gt; Handbuilt machines can easily outperform the hobby cheap chinese tools, &lt;br&gt; like a 9x lathe or X1 micro mill.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; If well built, following correct practice, they can easily be on a par &lt;br&gt; to industrial modern machining centres (think of a HAAS mini milling &lt;br&gt; machine, VF1 iirc, at 20.000 $).&lt;br&gt; If such performance is desired, they cannot be buitl in alu, or from all &lt;br&gt; cheap junkyard components.&lt;br&gt; However, they can be built about 15x cheaper for 20% of the performance &lt;br&gt; and 80% of the accuracy.&lt;br&gt; My milling machine will deliver machining performance about equivalent &lt;br&gt; to a modern HAAS.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Accuracy on both is about 0.01 mm.&lt;br&gt; Repetability on a modern one will be about 2x-3x better, because they &lt;br&gt; use 3000$ ballscrews and I use 300$ ballscrews.&lt;br&gt; But, the spindle power on mine is 1 Hp, vs 20-30 Hp on modern machines. &lt;br&gt; OTOH, I have 20x more machining envelope (1600 mm squared) than the HASS.&lt;br&gt; They can make stuff much faster, and have chip conveyors etc. which I &lt;br&gt; dont have (yet!).&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The lightweight alu construction is the weakest part of the gingery &lt;br&gt; designs, imo, ime.&lt;br&gt; Adding some mass in ground flat stock, either barstock or cast iron, &lt;br&gt; (very cheap and easy in the us) is a way to easily surpass the &lt;br&gt; capacities of cheap chinese hobby tooling, and enter into the realm of &lt;br&gt; industrial quality tooling.&lt;br&gt; Unfortunately, ground flat stock is not available over here.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; The only tools you really truly need are (measuring equipment, to suite) &lt;br&gt; a drill and an angle grinder. The rest just make is easier, faster and &lt;br&gt; more productive.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Keith,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Right you are. I would only be able to give a ball park figure of &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; accuracy. But I think some are wondering if one of these machines can &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; hold 0.001&amp;quot;, 0.01&amp;quot;, or 0.1&amp;quot;. I plan to cut a test cube.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:gcode.fi@gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZDE4ZmZ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODY0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTg5NzM0MA--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30864"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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I had no idea. In the future I will be more selective about which articles I announce. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Thanks for pointing this out to me. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I'm glad you did not leave the site Wonk. That would have been a loss. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; rick.sparber.org&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:54 PM, &amp;quot;Wonk&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:tiwonk%40yahoo.com"&gt;tiwonk@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; You are surley missing the point- look at the past postings and you will see there have been very little posted on Gingery stuff while you have been running the show with your articles! Once I brought up Gingery it is amazing that those who were waiting in the wings seemed to come out of the woodwork again. I've seen this happen several times in the past and it even caused me to edit and retreat from this site. I was asked to rejoin by Clint before he past away, and I try to be a good lurker and ignore posts that I have no value in reading but........&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Yes I have been flamed into changing my handle by those with stronger words than me and the need to carry the argument to a personal level, but I feel no shame in doing so!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Like I said your articles are great but when they seemingly take away from the site, so those who need the help or want to show off what they can do seem to lurk in the background. I'm off my soapbox and since I'm not the site owner or moderator I will bow to your need to post. My hopes will be that those who want to say something about Gingery machines will speak up, and yes other metal related stuff is good also&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Back to lurk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;RG Sparber&amp;quot; &amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I hope that no one would feel prevented from posting an email on building a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Gingery machine just because I was blathering on about precision or any&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; other subject. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I strongly feel that people must not bring up religion or politics on this&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; site. But beyond that, if it is metal working and at all related to how to&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; build or use a machine, it seems fair game. I'm sure plenty of people have&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; me on their &amp;quot;bozo filter&amp;quot;. That is fine with me.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I'm sure you agree that Gingery is more about an attitude than a specific&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; machine. To me this covers a wide range of endeavors.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:41 PM&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I agree that the more precise we make the machines the better they work.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; What I was implying was that the disscusion on precision was taking over the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; group rather than focusing on Gingery design machines.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; If you can somehow aime your precision toward how to build/ modify the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Gingery series better I would be all for it. I like reading your articles&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; and think you have some great ideas, I wish not to discourage precision but&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; to champion the building and modification of Gingery as our main topic. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber@aol.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; 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Once I brought up Gingery it is amazing that those who were waiting in the wings seemed to come out of the woodwork again. I've seen this happen several times in the past and it even caused me to edit and retreat from this site. I was asked to rejoin by Clint before he past away, and I try to be a good lurker and ignore posts that I have no value in reading but........&lt;br&gt; Yes I have been flamed into changing my handle by those with stronger words than me and the need to carry the argument to a personal level, but I feel no shame in doing so!&lt;br&gt; Like I said your articles are great but when they seemingly take away from the site, so those who need the help or want to show off what they can do seem to lurk in the background. I'm off my soapbox and since I'm not the site owner or moderator I will bow to your need to post. My hopes will be that those who want to say something about Gingery machines will speak up, and yes other metal related stuff is good also&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Back to lurk&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;RG Sparber&amp;quot; &amp;lt;rgsparber@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I hope that no one would feel prevented from posting an email on building a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Gingery machine just because I was blathering on about precision or any&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; other subject. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I strongly feel that people must not bring up religion or politics on this&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; site. But beyond that, if it is metal working and at all related to how to&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; build or use a machine, it seems fair game. I'm sure plenty of people have&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; me on their &amp;quot;bozo filter&amp;quot;. That is fine with me.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I'm sure you agree that Gingery is more about an attitude than a specific&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; machine. To me this covers a wide range of endeavors.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:41 PM&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I agree that the more precise we make the machines the better they work.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; What I was implying was that the disscusion on precision was taking over the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; group rather than focusing on Gingery design machines.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; If you can somehow aime your precision toward how to build/ modify the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Gingery series better I would be all for it. I like reading your articles&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; and think you have some great ideas, I wish not to discourage precision but&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; to champion the building and modification of Gingery as our main topic. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:tiwonk@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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The results were not as good as I'd hoped.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/photos/album/541390216/pic/609613649/view"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/photos/album/541390216/pic/609613649/view&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I think the problem is actually the toner (or possibly the parchment)&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; that I used.  I did the thermal transfer at low temperature on the&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; kitchen stove, using a silicone spatula to smooth it on.  The toner&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; did not come off of the parchment very cleanly... Plenty transferred,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; but the picture was still clearly bonded to the parchment as well.  I&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; would expect better masking if I can get more of the toner to transfer&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; over.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I used a strong, but not super-saturated solution of copper sulphate.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; It plates the steel sheet in about 3 seconds, just by brushing it on,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; and moving the puddle around.  The toner seems to be insoluble in&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; acetone, and is actually fairly difficult to scrub off.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Unfortunately, it is permeable to the copper sulphate, so wherever I&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; rubbed it off, there was copper underneath.  I'm not sure if this is a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; property of the Samsung toner though.  I'm going to try using a&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Toshiba photocopier next time.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:coldtoo2000@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20new%20article%20available%3A%20Laser%20Printing%20to%20Metal" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20new%20article%20available%3A%20Laser%20Printing%20to%20Metal"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbmp1MmNrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODYxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTg4ODU4Mg--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30861"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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(I think/hope it was your post).  And the motor mount was well done too.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Thanks again for all your contributions.&lt;br&gt; CT2&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, &amp;quot;Wonk&amp;quot; &amp;lt;tiwonk@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Yes, a fairly new feature that yahoo has provided so the uploader can retract the message from the online group. Those who get a digest email will have access until they delete that email from their machine/ server! This helps some of us to delete a message that was intended to go elsewhere. As far as files/photos go you have the choice to have them fiddled with by anyone or only the moderater and the person uploading. &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; I often delete photos/ files that are outdated or off topic from my folders as they are of little use to anyone including myself!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;  &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Ron Thompson &amp;lt;ron@&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; On 9/11/2011 11:07 PM, DennisF MacIntyre wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Dear Group Moderators&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;    I clicked on &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/files/Gene%27s%20file%20folder/5%"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/files/Gene%27s%20file%20folder/5%\&lt;br&gt; &lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; 20min%20undexing%20head.doc &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/files/Gene%27s%20file%20folder/5%20min%20undexing%20head.doc"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/files/Gene%27s%20file%20folder/5%20min%20undexing%20head.doc&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;lt; in message 15500. The following message appeared;-&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;quot; The requested file or directory is not found on the server. &amp;quot; minus &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; the quote&amp;quot;s. Is this information available?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;  ta  in advance&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; keep smiling&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; dennis mac&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; I think this was removed by the uploader. Maybe he will replace it for you.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Another alternative possibility, you may find in using the wayback machine.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.archive.org/web/web.php"&gt;http://www.archive.org/web/web.php&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Ron Thompson&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; There are two kinds of posts on newsgroups.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; 1. This is what I have done...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; 2. This is what I think...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Be aware of the difference!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.ourcadguy.com/"&gt;http://www.ourcadguy.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com&lt;/a&gt; My hobby pages are here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Visit the castinghobby FAQ:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/"&gt;http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:coldtoo2000@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20%22NEW%20FILE%20UPLOADED%20-%20MESSAGE15500%22" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%22NEW%20FILE%20UPLOADED%20-%20MESSAGE15500%22"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         	  &lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZWw5azYwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI0NTcxNzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyOTg1BG1zZ0lkAzMwODYwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMxNTg4ODIxMw--?act=reply&amp;messageNum=30860"&gt;Reply &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;via web post&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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Not a Gingery design and looks like it doesn't use castings but homebrew never-the-less!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/photos/album/888279538/pic/481263938/view?picmode=&amp;amp;mode=tn&amp;amp;order=ordinal&amp;amp;start=1&amp;amp;count=20&amp;amp;dir=asc"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/photos/album/888279538/pic/481263938/view?picmode=&amp;amp;mode=tn&amp;amp;order=ordinal&amp;amp;start=1&amp;amp;count=20&amp;amp;dir=asc&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, DennisF MacIntyre &amp;lt;a1g2r3i@&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; Dear Gene&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;    I looked in photo's and found your folder, re - message #15497. Also not you said &amp;quot;one of the first milling machines I built&amp;quot; ; how many did you build? and can we see them? etc. ?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; keep smiling&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; dennis mac&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:coldtoo2000@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20Lathe%20bed%2015497%20--%20Gene%27s%20homemade%20mill" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Lathe%20bed%2015497%20--%20Gene%27s%20homemade%20mill"&gt; 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 &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"&gt;   &lt;div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"&gt; &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--&gt;      &lt;div id="ygrp-text" &gt;                     &lt;p&gt;David &lt;br&gt; OOPS  I should have read your description more closely before replying.&lt;br&gt; Jim&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; ________________________________&lt;br&gt; From: Jim Holligan &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:jtholligan%40sbcglobal.net"&gt;jtholligan@sbcglobal.net&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; Sent: Mon, September 12, 2011 9:01:41 PM&lt;br&gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Electric furnace parts update&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; David&lt;br&gt; Power = Current * Voltage&lt;br&gt; Power is directly porportional to voltage.&lt;br&gt; Jim&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; ________________________________&lt;br&gt; From: David Frantz &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:websterindustro%40mac.com"&gt;websterindustro@mac.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; To: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Cc: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Sent: Mon, September 12, 2011 8:23:15 PM&lt;br&gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Electric furnace parts update&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; One thing to keep in mind is that power varies with the square of the voltage. &lt;br&gt; If your line voltage is lower than the design voltage you will not get the &lt;br&gt; expected power out. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; In any event it looks like you are on the right track looking for air leaks. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Sent from my iPad&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:20 PM, confed2001 &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:confed2001%40yahoo.com"&gt;confed2001@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Ron,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The Elements you use are the same thing I had. (I say had `cause my pot had a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;blowout on my last melt, and shorted out the element!) Anyway, the controller is &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;homemade and uses 2 SCRs that are rated at 600V / 70amp. This is tied into a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;Lutron dimmer switch. The switch comes with a very low rated triac so that was &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;replaced with one rated for 400v.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; After thinking it over I really don't think it's the controller so much as I am &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;just losing heat from the seams between the base, body, &amp;amp; lid. Most likely it is &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;between the body &amp;amp; lid. I've ordered a new heating element &amp;amp; should have it in &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;by the end of the week. I plan on installing it this weekend, and running it at &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;night. Kill the lights out side the shop &amp;amp; see what I can see.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; As for the refractory we once had a foundry here in Louisiana (that was knocked &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;out by Katrina). I got two 5 gal tubs of high temp cement from them for nothing, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;and used that for the base &amp;amp; lid. The body has an inner wall of fire bricks that &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;have been notched for the heating element, and between that &amp;amp; the outer metal &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;shell it was packed with more refractory. Short of making another lid I was &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;considering using that ceramic blanket you showed in your post to help seal the &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;gap between the lid &amp;amp; body like a gasket. I've also been considering building &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;the Gingery charcoal foundry with the remaining refractory I have….but than &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;again….&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Anyway, thanks for all the help&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Ron Thompson &amp;lt;ron@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On 9/11/2011 10:50 PM, confed2001 wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Am I to understand that you are using this to control the temperature &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; of an electric foundry such as the Gingery &amp;quot;Little Bertha&amp;quot;? I got a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; set of plans for an electric foundry from this site:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm"&gt;http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;m&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; It works &amp;amp; I have been using it for several years, but despite what &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; the plans say it does not get hot enough to melt copper much less &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; brass. I constructed the controller as described in the plans, and am &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; using the heating elements stated, but aluminum is the best I can get &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; out of it. If this controller will raise the temp of a small electric &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; foundry than I need to get one.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; The controller will not raise the temperature of a foundry. It will &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; regulate it and help the elements live longer due to the Pulse Width &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Modulation (PWM). This is easier on the elements.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I bought Dan's plans years ago, but have lost them. What kind of element &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; wire and controller does it use?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; One thought is your elements may be too long. Do they glow bright orange &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; under full power?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Another thought is the refractory. Maybe it isn't insulating enough and &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; loosing too much heat. Is the outside of the furnace hot to the touch?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am using 2 Kanthal elements from here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649"&gt;http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; This will be for 220V operation.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I intend to use this ceramic blanket refractory:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx"&gt;http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Axner is local to me, but they do ship. I am going today to pick it up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I still need some heater duct for the shell and for the solid state &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; relays to arrive from China.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Oh and I need some small ceramic insulators to hold the elements in place.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Ron Thompson&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;USA&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; There are two kinds of posts on newsgroups.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 1. This is what I have done...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 2. This is what I think...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Be aware of the difference!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.ourcadguy.com/"&gt;http://www.ourcadguy.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com&lt;/a&gt; My hobby pages are here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Visit the castinghobby FAQ:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/"&gt;http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; 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 &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--&gt; &lt;div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"&gt;   &lt;div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"&gt; &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--&gt;      &lt;div id="ygrp-text" &gt;                     &lt;p&gt;David&lt;br&gt; Power = Current * Voltage&lt;br&gt; Power is directly porportional to voltage.&lt;br&gt; Jim&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; ________________________________&lt;br&gt; From: David Frantz &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:websterindustro%40mac.com"&gt;websterindustro@mac.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; To: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Cc: &amp;quot;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;quot; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; Sent: Mon, September 12, 2011 8:23:15 PM&lt;br&gt; Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: Electric furnace parts update&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;   &lt;br&gt; One thing to keep in mind is that power varies with the square of the voltage. &lt;br&gt; If your line voltage is lower than the design voltage you will not get the &lt;br&gt; expected power out. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; In any event it looks like you are on the right track looking for air leaks. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Sent from my iPad&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:20 PM, confed2001 &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:confed2001%40yahoo.com"&gt;confed2001@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Ron,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The Elements you use are the same thing I had. (I say had `cause my pot had a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;blowout on my last melt, and shorted out the element!) Anyway, the controller is &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;homemade and uses 2 SCRs that are rated at 600V / 70amp. This is tied into a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;Lutron dimmer switch. The switch comes with a very low rated triac so that was &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;replaced with one rated for 400v.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; After thinking it over I really don't think it's the controller so much as I am &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;just losing heat from the seams between the base, body, &amp;amp; lid. Most likely it is &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;between the body &amp;amp; lid. I've ordered a new heating element &amp;amp; should have it in &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;by the end of the week. I plan on installing it this weekend, and running it at &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;night. Kill the lights out side the shop &amp;amp; see what I can see.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; As for the refractory we once had a foundry here in Louisiana (that was knocked &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;out by Katrina). I got two 5 gal tubs of high temp cement from them for nothing, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;and used that for the base &amp;amp; lid. The body has an inner wall of fire bricks that &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;have been notched for the heating element, and between that &amp;amp; the outer metal &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;shell it was packed with more refractory. Short of making another lid I was &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;considering using that ceramic blanket you showed in your post to help seal the &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;gap between the lid &amp;amp; body like a gasket. I've also been considering building &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;the Gingery charcoal foundry with the remaining refractory I have….but than &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;again….&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Anyway, thanks for all the help&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Ron Thompson &amp;lt;ron@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On 9/11/2011 10:50 PM, confed2001 wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Am I to understand that you are using this to control the temperature &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; of an electric foundry such as the Gingery &amp;quot;Little Bertha&amp;quot;? I got a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; set of plans for an electric foundry from this site:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm"&gt;http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;m&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; It works &amp;amp; I have been using it for several years, but despite what &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; the plans say it does not get hot enough to melt copper much less &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; brass. I constructed the controller as described in the plans, and am &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; using the heating elements stated, but aluminum is the best I can get &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; out of it. If this controller will raise the temp of a small electric &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; foundry than I need to get one.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; The controller will not raise the temperature of a foundry. It will &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; regulate it and help the elements live longer due to the Pulse Width &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Modulation (PWM). This is easier on the elements.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I bought Dan's plans years ago, but have lost them. What kind of element &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; wire and controller does it use?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; One thought is your elements may be too long. Do they glow bright orange &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; under full power?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Another thought is the refractory. Maybe it isn't insulating enough and &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; loosing too much heat. Is the outside of the furnace hot to the touch?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am using 2 Kanthal elements from here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649"&gt;http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; This will be for 220V operation.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I intend to use this ceramic blanket refractory:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx"&gt;http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Axner is local to me, but they do ship. I am going today to pick it up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I still need some heater duct for the shell and for the solid state &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; relays to arrive from China.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Oh and I need some small ceramic insulators to hold the elements in place.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Ron Thompson&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;USA&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; There are two kinds of posts on newsgroups.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 1. This is what I have done...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 2. This is what I think...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Be aware of the difference!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.ourcadguy.com/"&gt;http://www.ourcadguy.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com&lt;/a&gt; My hobby pages are here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Visit the castinghobby FAQ:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/"&gt;http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; 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Downturn in a business cycle is painful but necessary medicine for restoring equilibrium to the economic system.  Reject further lowering of the interest rate (stimulative monetary policy) or any other attempts (for example, deficit spending or stimulative fiscal policy) to stimulate demand.  &lt;a href="http://venitism.blogspot.com"&gt;http://venitism.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Stimulus spending is like morphine. It might feel good in the short term for the beneficiaries of the money, but it doesn't help repair the economy. And it causes more damage if it gets in the way of a proper recovery.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; A bailout is a perverse transfer from poor taxpayers to rich taxpayers. America's Founding Fathers surely never envisaged that the federal government would take money from one group of Americans and give it to another group. Yet much of the federal budget is devoted to redistribution programs.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Libertarian Party Executive Director Wes Benedict points out unemployment is at 9 percent. Four years ago, in late 2007, unemployment was less than 5 percent. Then in 2008, President Bush mailed out millions of 300-dollar government stimulus checks. Later that year, he supported the massive TARP bailout. Unemployment rose. In 2009, President Obama said if we passed another big stimulus plan, unemployment would stay below 8 percent. Now it's at 9 percent. Government spending does not help the economy, it hurts the economy.&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; Benedict notes stimulus spending doesn't create jobs, it destroys them. When investors hear that the U.S. government is going to flush more money down the spending hole, they react immediately by cutting back on investments that would have created jobs.&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; Government stimulus spending benefits a few, but at great expense to everyone else. Benedict muses politicians like to be able to say they're &amp;quot;doing something,&amp;quot; but too often, &amp;quot;doing something&amp;quot; means handing out money to special interests. Often these programs are promoted with false claims that they will benefit the poor and middle class. Usually the opposite happens.&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; Benedict asserts that we don't need the government &amp;quot;doing something&amp;quot; if it involves more spending and new programs. We'd be better off if the government stopped trying to help, and gave Americans a chance to recover, adjust their plans, and start solving economic problems themselves.&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; However, if politicians feel like they must be seen &amp;quot;doing something&amp;quot;, then they should cut spending, bring our troops home from the Middle East, reduce Medicare and Social Security benefits, cut taxes, and eliminate burdensome licensing laws and minimum wage laws. Licensing and minimum wage laws take the bottom rungs off the economic ladder.&lt;br&gt;  &lt;br&gt; Benedict points out libertarians always support broad-based tax cuts. But targeted special-interest cuts and loopholes just amount to social engineering, and they pit different interest groups against each other. And tax cuts without spending cuts virtually guarantee that future generations will suffer a heavier tax burden.  It's foolish to talk about increasing taxes on the wealthy. That would be a great way to destroy even more jobs. 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If your line voltage is lower than the design voltage you will not get the expected power out.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; In any event it looks like you are on the right track looking for air leaks.  &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Sent from my iPad&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:20 PM, confed2001 &amp;lt;&lt;a href="mailto:confed2001%40yahoo.com"&gt;confed2001@yahoo.com&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Ron,&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; The Elements you use are the same thing I had. (I say had `cause my pot had a blowout on my last melt, and shorted out the element!) Anyway, the controller is homemade and uses 2 SCRs that are rated at 600V / 70amp. This is tied into a Lutron dimmer switch. The switch comes with a very low rated triac so that was replaced with one rated for 400v.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; After thinking it over I really don't think it's the controller so much as I am just losing heat from the seams between the base, body, &amp;amp; lid. Most likely it is between the body &amp;amp; lid. I've ordered a new heating element &amp;amp; should have it in by the end of the week. I plan on installing it this weekend, and running it at night. Kill the lights out side the shop &amp;amp; see what I can see.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; As for the refractory we once had a foundry here in Louisiana (that was knocked out by Katrina). I got two 5 gal tubs of high temp cement from them for nothing, and used that for the base &amp;amp; lid. The body has an inner wall of fire bricks that have been notched for the heating element, and between that &amp;amp; the outer metal shell it was packed with more refractory. Short of making another lid I was considering using that ceramic blanket you showed in your post to help seal the gap between the lid &amp;amp; body like a gasket. I've also been considering building the Gingery charcoal foundry with the remaining refractory I have….but than again….&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Anyway, thanks for all the help&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; --- In &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;, Ron Thompson &amp;lt;ron@...&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On 9/11/2011 10:50 PM, confed2001 wrote:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Am I to understand that you are using this to control the temperature &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; of an electric foundry such as the Gingery &amp;quot;Little Bertha&amp;quot;? I got a &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; set of plans for an electric foundry from this site:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm"&gt;http://www.dansworkshop.com/aluminum-foundry/homebuilt-electric-melting-furnace.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; It works &amp;amp; I have been using it for several years, but despite what &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; the plans say it does not get hot enough to melt copper much less &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; brass. I constructed the controller as described in the plans, and am &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; using the heating elements stated, but aluminum is the best I can get &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; out of it. If this controller will raise the temp of a small electric &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; foundry than I need to get one.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Brian&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; The controller will not raise the temperature of a foundry. It will &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; regulate it and help the elements live longer due to the Pulse Width &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Modulation (PWM). This is easier on the elements.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I bought Dan's plans years ago, but have lost them. What kind of element &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; wire and controller does it use?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; One thought is your elements may be too long. Do they glow bright orange &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; under full power?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Another thought is the refractory. Maybe it isn't insulating enough and &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; loosing too much heat. Is the outside of the furnace hot to the touch?&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I am using 2 Kanthal elements from here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649"&gt;http://www.ebay.com/itm/170641989014?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&amp;amp;_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; This will be for 220V operation.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I intend to use this ceramic blanket refractory:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;lt;&lt;a href="http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx"&gt;http://www.axner.com/superwoolfiber-1thicksoldpersqft.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Axner is local to me, but they do ship. I am going today to pick it up.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; I still need some heater duct for the shell and for the solid state &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; relays to arrive from China.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Oh and I need some small ceramic insulators to hold the elements in place.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; -- &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Ron Thompson&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; There are two kinds of posts on newsgroups.&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 1. This is what I have done...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; 2. This is what I think...&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Be aware of the difference!&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.ourcadguy.com/"&gt;http://www.ourcadguy.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com&lt;/a&gt; My hobby pages are here:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/"&gt;http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Visit the castinghobby FAQ:&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;a href="http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/"&gt;http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; ------------------------------------&lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; &amp;gt; &lt;br&gt; 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But beyond that, if it is metal working and at all related to how to&lt;br&gt; build or use a machine, it seems fair game. I'm sure plenty of people have&lt;br&gt; me on their &amp;quot;bozo filter&amp;quot;. That is fine with me.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I'm sure you agree that Gingery is more about an attitude than a specific&lt;br&gt; machine. To me this covers a wide range of endeavors.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; -----Original Message-----&lt;br&gt; From: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; [mailto:&lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;] On Behalf Of Wonk&lt;br&gt; Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:41 PM&lt;br&gt; To: &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com"&gt;gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt; Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: Anyone doing something Gingery?&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Rick,&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; I agree that the more precise we make the machines the better they work.&lt;br&gt; What I was implying was that the disscusion on precision was taking over the&lt;br&gt; group rather than focusing on Gingery design machines.&lt;br&gt; If you can somehow aime your precision toward how to build/ modify the&lt;br&gt; Gingery series better I would be all for it. I like reading your articles&lt;br&gt; and think you have some great ideas, I wish not to discourage precision but&lt;br&gt; to champion the building and modification of Gingery as our main topic. &lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; Wonk&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;/p&gt;      &lt;/div&gt;            &lt;!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--&gt;     &lt;div style="color: #fff; height: 0;"&gt;__._,_.___&lt;/div&gt;                      &lt;div id="ygrp-actbar" style="clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; white-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"&gt;       &lt;div&gt;         &lt;a href="mailto:rgsparber@aol.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F" style="margin-right: 0; padding-right: 0;"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;sender&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; |         &lt;a href="mailto:gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bgingery_machines%5D%20Re%3A%20Anyone%20doing%20something%20Gingery%3F"&gt; 	  Reply to &lt;span style="font-weight: 700;"&gt;group&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 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