level with layers of masking tape. Using a zero-clearance plate, where you
start with a plate installed, then turn on the saw and raise the blade up
through to cutting height, is a bit safer. More importantly, it prevents a
lot of chipout at the edge for smoother cuts in your stock. A decent blade
is essential. At least a $25 or so blade vs a $10 one makes a big
difference.
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Wonk <tiwonk@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> In my opinion you both should take a gander at your saws and see what is
> needed to align and make them to cut square and true. Pattern making
> shouldn't need a CNC machine, but if you wanting to go that way I might
> suggest starting with a smaller frame made of MDF and aluminum extrusions to
> get you started. MDF is very flat and stable as long as it stays dry and out
> of a humid place. I worked in a major repair maintenance shop for 20 years
> and had to go out on many different types of appliances and shop machinery
> warranty calls including tablesaws. Even the cheapy saws had means of making
> a fairly accurate cut once adjusted and a good blade installed.
> Brad, from the description you gave I might suspect you were talking about
> the blade insert that was flimsy? You should be able to make a new one from
> a hardwood and install some small set screws to adjust level. I recommend
> this anyway so you get a zero clearance to the blade for less likely kick
> back due to a chip or small piece getting stuck. As far as the fence- I
> probably would take the original off and build one from MDF or some of the
> plastic material available thru Rockler or other wood machine dealer. I like
> the 'Besmier' (SP?) type of fence which wouldn't be too hard to duplicate
> then clamp after setting the blade square to the miter bar slots. That
> should correct the saw enough to make a few patterns? You could also use a
> router to make square boards for patterns. I simply used a couple of pieces
> of MDF glued and screwed together to make a table, bored a hole for the
> router and screwed it to the table. Set up on a couple of saw horses, and
> walla you have a router table and any straight edge clamped to the table
> will act as a fence. Easier than setting up a table saw for me! The library
> probably has lots of wood working books and magazines where you can get
> hints and tips.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Wonk
>
>
> --- In gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com<gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com>,
> David Frantz <websterindustro@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Brad;
> >
> > I understand your plight, there is nothing worst than a table saw that
> doesn't cut square. There is one out in my shed right now.
> >
> > For slightly different reasons I've been thinking about building a router
> also. If one is careful about sizing the unit it could be made suitable for
> both wood and light work in metals. All you really need is interchangable
> heads or a hefty variable speed spindle.
> >
> > The problem comes about when you try to build the unit with out access to
> a full machine shop. This is where I find potential in the Gingery approach.
> The problem I have is that some of the parts would require a lot of metal,
> which is one reasons the project is on hold. I'm actually trying to score a
> large extrusion for the gantry but welded steel might have to do.
> >
> > I may have to scale down the idea a bit to keep it manageable. Well that
> and to keep the machine suitable for both metalic and non-metalic machining.
> In any event I believe that such a machine could be a very good investment
> for a small machine shop. In a nut shell it is a miniature bridge mill. It
> would be a lot of work to build a precision wood router and in the end have
> a device in your shop not suitable for machining metal in at least a light
> capacity.
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >
> > David A Frantz
> >
> > websterindustro@...
> > Sent from my iPhone.
>
> >
> > On Oct 28, 2010, at 11:27 AM, Brad Stogsdill <bstogsdill1@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Dave
> > >
> > > You are correct- a person need the right tools but also the right
> quality of tools. True a router is no gaurantee, but it has to be a
> significant improvement over my jobsight table saw, which can not produce a
> square enough cut fit for anything but framing jobs!
> > >
> > > I have an issue with the removable plate that allows access to change
> blades- the plate is flimsy and any small parts that slide over it are not
> held square and impossible to get a clean square cut. It is a great
> improvement over a hand held saw, but unfit for work of any accuracy.
> > >
> > > I figure instead of buying a better table saw and having 2 of them, I
> am better off adding a different piece of equipment to expand capabilities.
> (One of the 1st patterns I plan to make on the router is a replacement plate
> for the saw that will be cast and machined and will be ridgid and will not
> bow and flex and will hold work piece flat... so I hope anyway)
> > >
> > > A far as the draft, I dont have an issue hand sanding or power sanding
> draft lines. The draft lines are not critical except for looks, as long as
> they function for pattern removal from sand.
> > >
> > > My problem is with surfaces that must be true parallel or perpendicular
> to each other. For example, the shaper side columns ram channels need to be
> flat and square with each other, and my crappy unsquare patterns required me
> to spend hours and hours hand scraping and filing aluminum. My opposite
> coners were 1/8 of an inch off and I had to hands crape the channels night
> after night...If I had been able to produce squared ram channels in that
> pattern.. I would have saved a week of night work on the shaper...
> > >
> > > So to make a long story sort I was motivated to make bettter patterns
> and will report back how well it works. (Stepper motors have arrived to USA
> and are in transit from California! yahoo! )
> > >
> > > Hey cool weather is coming - I like to cast in cold weather!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Bradley
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 10/25/10, David Patterson <odd_kins@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: David Patterson <odd_kins@...>
>
> > > Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: On Shaper Castings Question ...
> > > To: gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com<gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:33 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Having a cnc router does not mean you'll get a good pattern. the
> patterns required are basic pattern to build. You just need the right wood
> working tools. From what I've seen a tablesaw, drillpress and a 10" to 12"
> disksander. you need to be able to put draft on everything. easiest way on a
> 3 axis cnc is with a tapered cutter.
> > >
> > > Dave Patterson
> > > odd_kins@...
>
> > > http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundry_home.html<http://home.comcast.net/%7Eoddkins/foundry_home.html>
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Brad Stogsdill <bstogsdill1@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Brad Stogsdill <bstogsdill1@...>
>
> > > Subject: Re: [gingery_machines] Re: On Shaper Castings Question ...
> > > To: gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com<gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 7:59 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi-
> > >
> > > I think the only way to make it worth one's while is to make mutliple
> sets- try to automate... you have to take out the manual laboer..there is
> just not enought time unless you do not have to work for a living already..
> maybe a kid at home over summer or retired person who enjoys it maybe could
> make and sell a few castings ?
> > >
> > > I have been side tracked on my shaper... I have issues with my patterns
> and castings and decided to stop casting and make a working 3 axis router to
> make nice patterns form a drawing.. then I need to perfect my molding skills
> and then I can hope for a pretty casting.
> > >
> > > I got to thinking if I achieve producing nice patterns on the CNC I
> could then make whole pattern kit for a specific gingery machine ( that is
> let the router make it automatically so it wont require much time for me
> after I program the 1st one and debug it) and then sell the pattern kits on
> ebay and if the market price will allow me to make a few $, then maybe I can
> make my CNC router pay for itself hopefully before I wear it out...
> > >
> > > The really neat thing I think is that you can take a plain looking
> pattern and fancy it up and make it look really slick using CAD and then
> create a casting with your name or something written in it.
> > >
> > > I like doing the Gingery thing and making stuff for hobby/personal use
> but there is some expense to fabricating these machines, both in time and
> money.
> > >
> > > If I can come up with a way to make any of these machines pay for them
> selves, then the only issue is the time requirement and you can use money,
> if you have it, to save time... Then if I have more time or money, I can
> invest in more equipment for the shop... :)
> > >
> > > I have stepper motors and driver and power supply in transit right now
> for router!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Bradley
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 10/24/10, Brite <coldtoo2000@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Brite <coldtoo2000@...>
>
> > > Subject: [gingery_machines] Re: On Shaper Castings Question ...
> > > To: gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com<gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010, 9:49 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com<gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Wonk" <tiwonk@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> CT2,
> > >>
> > >> Trouble is who wants to do this as a low paying business? I'm not one
> to be greedy but think that for most of us this is a hobby and once you
> start charging you should do so at the going rate and think about taxes,
> business license, etc.
> > >> My offer still stands that I will loan out my patterns with deposit &
> shipping if someone wants to cast them.
> > >>
> > >> Wonk
> > >>
> > >> --- In gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com<gingery_machines%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Brite" <coldtoo2000@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello All,
> > >>>
> > >>> Crackerfactory had asked about Shaper castings. I've been looking
> over Book 3 and looks like there are about 24 separate castings for ~40 lbs
> of alum.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is easily 40 to 60 hrs of work for a guy like me, even if the
> pattern were already available.
> > >>>
> > >>> One could prolly cut it down to the 15 or so large castings and make
> up other parts from stock, which would save some work.
> > >>>
> > >>> So I'd have to say that $300-500 would be the lower starting point
> for castings from even a very generous soul. At twice that cost (caster just
> making "wages" for his time), it still wouldn't be a bad price for a "Shaper
> Kit"
> > >>>
> > >>> Opinions??
> > >>>
> > >>> CT2
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
--
Nick A
"You know what I wish? I wish that all the scum of the world had but a
single throat, and I had my hands about it..." Rorschach, 1975
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
of Pennsylvania, 1759
"Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the
streets after them." Bill Vaughan
"The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
Plato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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