The question was how fast can it be done, how reliable is it and is the technology portable enough to be carried on a ship or can they simply send a computer simulation on line? You have answered none of these questions. But I appreciate the try.
--- In Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com, "Sheep&Goatlady" <springcreek@...> wrote:
>
> You know little of DNA,, if they have a sample alread to compare to it is
> easy and quickly done as well as any DNA of close relatives espeicaly one
> from the mother side, and Yes, the US military does have mean for quick
> testing of DNA,,I found this out recently when I was intouch with the US
> military of KIA and MIA of military from various wars,, My uncle went MIA
> than FOD, KIA,, but never found his remains nor the crew of his plame
> possible in new Guriea or off of new Gurinea,, 1943
> The Military now, does get DNA from family members,, the only living member
> left that is a sibling of my uncle was another uncle,, I put the military
> in touch with him to get DNA sample should they ever find the remains,, the
> need the DMA from a female relatives or the mother or full sibling to do
> this, it can be done quickly,, this was espcially developed since Nam,, and
> the technonogly is even better today,, So the person who wrote this article
> does not know much about DMA testing,
> ** An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind Gandhi **
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary" <garyrumor2@...>
> To: <Politics_CurrentEvents_Group@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 9:30 PM
> Subject: [Politics_CurrentEvents_Group] Osama DNA Story
>
>
> Osama DNA Story
> May 2nd, 2011
>
> Somebody wrote an interesting thing today about DNA testing, doesn't it take
> days to get results? All the sources I have read about on line say it takes
> 3 days expedited service to get DNA results. But that is for commercially
> available results and knowing how most businesses operate, there is some
> fudge time included for processing paperwork and generally screwing around.
>
> These results were available in hours. So we have to assume the government
> has access to better technology, or they are lying, either about when this
> happened, or who they killed. According to this article there is technology
> available that will give you test results in a couple of hours. I don't know
> what kind of a machine that requires, I assume they would have to have one
> on base in Afghanistan or on the ship when the Navy Seals returned from
> their mission with what they presumed to be Osama's body.
>
> Perhaps that is what the President was waiting for last night when his
> speech was delayed for a couple of hours after the news was announced on
> CNN. I don't have twitter, so I was not among the earliest of the early
> birds with the info. But conspiracy buffs do have a point, when they say
> hey, what about the DNA. I don't know if this takes care of their questions,
> but it is interesting to note that there still are technologies that the
> government has access to that we mere mortals still hold to be in the realm
> of fantasy.
>
> =============================================
>
> From Fast Company
>
> CSI Islamabad: The DNA Identity Test Of Osama Bin Laden
> BY Kit EatonToday
>
> Osama Bin Laden has been proclaimed dead from a gunshot wound to the head.
> But in today's photoshopping era, the world demands more proof-a DNA test to
> identify the body is actually him.
>
> Back in late 2001, when the allied offensive against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan
> was still in its early days and attention was concentrated on the Tora Bora
> region where Bin Laden and his associates were reported to be hiding, the
> U.S. and other forces dropped tons of high explosives into the
> area-including the BLU-82 Daisy Cutter bomb (a high-explosives giant that's
> also known as "the poor man's nuclear bomb"). When ground forces penetrated
> into the zones after the air assaults, they found plenty of bodies.but faced
> a difficult task: How to tell if one of them was Osama? Soldiers collected
> and tagged body fragments, then sent them off to be analyzed back in the
> U.S. The FBI's labs compared the evidence to DNA samples acquired as "swabs"
> from Bin Laden's family members. Today, something very similar is going on
> to prove the body dumped at sea really was Bin Laden.
>
> DNA matching (also known as genetic fingerprinting) is different to full DNA
> sequencing-a long drawn out process that takes time, technology, and money
> to work out the absolute list of hundreds of millions of nucleotides, the
> famous G, T, C, A pattern that make up your genetic identity. Over 99.9% of
> everyone's DNA sequence is the same, but that still leaves millions of bits
> of code that are unique to you. You share some of this unique code with your
> parents and siblings (and actually all of it if you're an identical twin),
> but most of it is yours and yours alone-and this is where DNA matching
> works. It involves breaking your DNA down in a number of different ways and
> looking for a short list of what's called loci-tell-tale markers that reveal
> where specific genes are located. The list from a test sample (from, say, a
> crime scene) is compared against the list from a reference sample obtained
> from your person-if the lists match, there's an incredibly high statistical
> probability that the two DNA samples come from the same person.
>
> In Osama's case, the DNA tests don't necessarily involve a reference sample
> from the man himself (presumably because it's hard to find), but reportedly
> from his sister who died in Boston recently. Tissue from her body was used
> to create an extensive reference DNA fingerprint. Because your parents give
> you some of their DNA, they also give your siblings some of the same genetic
> code-which is why sibling DNA tests work. They sometimes concentrate on ares
> of the genome called "junk DNA" which serves no biological function but
> still gets passed along to offspring. By testing for repeat strands of DNA
> code in these areas, it's possible to work out if two individuals are
> related as siblings.
>
> Typical lab-based DNA matching tests like this can take up to 14 days;
> they're painstaking and need to be repeated several times to ensure the
> sample's not contaminated from any other DNA sources. But that's not
> necessarily the only way to do these tests: Late in 2010, a University of
> Arizona team presented research on a machine that can do the analysis in
> just two hours in a largely automated way. It's possible that knowing they
> were engaged on a mission to capture Bin Laden, U.S. Forces arranged for
> access to a machine like this to be on quick alert-probably for flying
> blood, cheek cells, and other samples taken from the body to the lab for
> expedited analysis.
>
> But here's the thing: DNA matching isn't an exact science, and sibling
> matching is slightly more inexact. It all comes down to a probability, with
> a statement like "there's a one in one quadrillion chance this isn't the
> same person in both DNA samples." In other words: conspiracy theorists still
> have something to talk about.
>
> http://www.fastcompany.com/1751030/how-a-dna-identity-test-on-osama-bin-laden-works
>
> ======================================
>
> From The Star.com
>
> DNA fingerprinting helped identify Osama bin Laden
>
> 2011/05/02 18:44:00
>
> Debra BlackStaff Reporter
>
> DNA fingerprinting helped confirm Osama bin Laden was killed by American
> forces in Pakistan.
>
> Officials in Washington are saying that the DNA evidence provides a match
> with 99.9 per cent confidence.
>
> According to reports on FastCompany.com soldiers collected and tagged body
> fragments then shipped them off to be tested in the U.S to FBI labs. There
> the DNA samples were tested against "swabs" from bin Laden's family members.
> A similar test is also being conducted to prove the body dumped at sea is
> bin Laden.
>
> Officials did not immediately say where or how the testing was done but the
> test explains why U.S. President Barack Obama was confident in announcing
> the death to the world Sunday night, according to Canadian Press. Obama
> provided no details on the identification process.
>
> The U.S. is believed to have collected DNA samples from bin Laden family
> members in the years since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks that triggered the
> U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan.
>
> However, it was unclear whether the U.S. also had fingerprints or some other
> means to identify the body on site, the wire service reports.
>
> CNN reports that a national security official said there were multiple
> confirmations of bin Laden's identity. The official said they also used
> "facial recognition work, amongst other things, to confirm the identity."
>
> According to ABC News the DNA samples came from bin Laden's sister's body
> after she died in Boston from brain cancer several years ago. The FBI
> subpoenaed her body so it could be used to identify him.
>
> The brain of bin Laden's sister, who has not been identified, was then
> preserved and the tissue and blood samples taken from it were used to
> compile a DNA profile. That was matched to the DNA of the man shot dead by
> U.S. troops.
>
> Typical lab testing can take up to 14 days, but a new machine being
> developed by a team at the University of Arizona can do it in just two
> hours. It's unclear whether U.S. intelligence forces had access to such
> technology.
>
> But Frederic Zenhausern, head of the project at the University of Arizona's
> College of Medicine, told the Star it is possible to do the genetic work
> required in a couple of hours given the high priority of identifying bin
> Laden even without such technology.
>
> When genetic fingerprinting first started it could take as long as four to
> six weeks of lab work to complete and compare the samples.
>
> DNA matching or fingerprinting is very different from doing a complete DNA
> sequencing - which is a lot longer process and takes time, technology and
> money to puzzle out the hundreds of millions of nucleotides that make up an
> individual's genetic identity.
>
> How does genetic fingerprinting work? Most human beings share 99.9 per cent
> of DNA sequencing. But there are millions of bits of code that are unique to
> each individual. You share some with your parents and siblings, but most is
> yours.
>
> With DNA matching your DNA is broken down into a short list called loci -
> tell-tale markers that show where specific genes are located. American
> standards call for the use of 13 fragments of DNA to be used to compare,
> explained Zenhausern. In Europe scientists use 16 fragments of DNA to
> compare.
>
> A test sample is done and it's compared to a reference sample from the
> individual. If the lists match that means there is a high statistical
> probability that the two samples come from the same person.
>
> But with bin Laden the DNA test didn't involve a reference sample from him,
> but rather from his sister. The sample from his sister works because parents
> give siblings some of their DNA and they share the same genetic code.
>
> When testing against a relative's DNA, scientists often look to parts of the
> genome described as junk DNA which are passed on to all offspring. By
> testing these strands of DNA, it's possible to work out if two individuals
> are related as siblings.
>
> But Zenhausern, who is professor and director of the Centre of Applied
> Nanobioscience and Medicine at the College of Medicine in Phoenix at the
> University of Arizona, said comparing DNA samples to a sibling means that
> the likelihood of error would be relatively low.
>
> "In the case of direct siblings, the error rate would be relatively
> low.maybe you loose a half or one per cent," Zenhausern said. "You would be
> in the 99.9 per cent accuracy range. If you go to a half-sibling you can
> have an error rate that goes up to 10 per cent. The further away you go in
> the family tree, the higher the error rate."
>
> So in this case matching samples from the body that U.S. officials believe
> is bin Laden against his sister's DNA samples would provide "a good match
> for an identification," said Zenhausern.
>
> Zenhausern is hoping that once the Rapid DNA Testing machine he and his team
> have come up with is approved for use, it will become the standard in the
> international forensic community.
>
> It is currently being tested by police forces in the United Kingdom,
> Australia, Germany and the Netherlands and soon will be tested by the FBI,
> he said. "Typically DNA matching is becoming the standard in biometrics," he
> said. Biometrics uses biology and biological technology to identify people.
>
> He added that it is likely scientists are now conducting further tests on
> the samples obtained from the body before it was buried at sea, doing a full
> profile analysis and doing DNA sequencing looking at everything possible to
> get a comple DNA picture.
>
> But DNA matching or genetic fingerprinting isn't perfect. It's far from an
> exact science and comes down to probabilities.
>
> http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/984153-dna-fingerprinting-helped-identify-osama-bin-laden
>
> ====================
>
> Link to BBC story with pictures of compound and layout.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13261064
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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